Speculation George Lucas says "I don't really have much to do."

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Darth Chiznuk, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    This exchange is terrific. This sums up the short time I've spent on these forums. I had no idea how polarizing these flicks were until the past few weeks. I assumed it was common knowledge that the prequels blew. It's been an eye opening and a learning experience, I'll tell you that.
  2. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    They're polarizing, I'll give you that—but I haven't seen any rating (rottentomatoes, IMdb, etc.) according to majority opinion holds that the "prequels blew," the majority of people seems to enjoy them just fine.

    Anyway, I suspect that you're looking too much into a statement that's intended to make a certain point.
    Last edited by Count Yubnub, Dec 5, 2012
  3. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    There is something intangible between Luke & Han that makes it feel genuine. The writing, the performances, the whole package make the relationship feel real. The prequels have none of this. It's stilted, forced, and fake. Guinness' speech in Jedi does more to establish his relationship with Anakin than the entire PT does.

    I get in trouble when I don't clarify this, so I'll now state that the above is my opinion.
    Last edited by Cantina Bassist, Dec 5, 2012
  4. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    Of course you do.
  5. Frank_TJ_Mackey Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 6, 2000
    star 4
    Well, of all my childhood friends with whom I was playing SW at home, school and every places in between.......I am the only one who is still a SW fans. They even were laughing at me when I bought SW gears from Adidas a few years ago.

    All of them went to see the prequels when they were playing, but they aren't SW fans anymore. They are LOTR fans, James Bond fans, but SW lost some appeal to them.

    They will go see the ST trilogy and may like them......but it looks like they will never be SW fans again.

    Its a personal story....but I think it applies to a lot of gangs around the world.

    And you know, when the original trilogy was released....people were not simply enjoying them.......I remember fights in my gang about whether or not Lando was to be trust......that was passion....

    We have passion here...but among fans......my Lando story was between casual and SW fans.

    Anyway....we are way beyond our main topic.

    Sorry for that.
    Last edited by Frank_TJ_Mackey, Dec 5, 2012
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  6. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I actually said on another thread that despite all the complaints about the PT, I believe that when it comes down to it, the sole reason it isn't as accepted by some people is that the character interactions don't feel quite as genuine as they do in the OT. There are many reasons for this. Some of it is the dialogue, however the dialogue isn't as far removed from that of the OT as many people seem to think. Some of it is the way Lucas directed the actors, which was intentionally in a 30's style, and some of it is the inability of some of the actors to be able to act in that style, as well as the difficulty of acting in front of a blue/green screen. I personally think a lot of it has to do with Ben Burtt's editing, and that in many cases the actors probably gave better performances than you see on screen. Ultimately it bothers me a little, but not enough to ruin my enjoyment of the movies, however I can understand how it would for a lot of people.
    Last edited by Mystery_Roach, Dec 5, 2012
  7. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    This might be natural: they might view SW as too childish and feel they're too cool for it. The same thing happened to my cousins. Once the hormones started kicking in, they abandoned Star Wars claiming it's as stupid as Disney movies (funny, considering the recent events). However, the oldest one bought a BluRay set recently and was watching all six and enjoying them again.

    But then there was a period known as Dark Years when no one cared about Star Wars either (to the point that it was considered a 70s fad). As polarizing as the prequels were, they at least brought Star Wars back into the public consciousness, attracted more fans (kids, at least) and created all sorts of multimedia tie-ins that kept Star Wars going for years after 2005.
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  8. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    That wasn't intended as a personal offense, and if you took it that way I apologize.
  9. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    You seem to think I'm attacking Lucas's skills here, which I'm not. The poster I was originally responding to couldn't understand why people were saying Lucas made things up as he went along. I was pointing out the reasons it's pretty obvious that he did, and clarifying that it's just these major plot points that he made up as he went and not the overall story. I'm not placing a judgement of good or bad on it, I'm just saying the contradictions between what the original scenes implied about the past, and what ended up being canon about the past made the fact obvious. It doesn't matter to my point whether or not it makes sense to someone watching it in order. The mind is very suggestible. Someone watching the saga for the first time in chronological order might think that when Vader says "Obi Wan once thought as you do", he's talking about Luke's belief in Anakin. The viewer's knowledge of the prequels would suggest that to him. (Obi-Wan's belief in Anakin did shine through in their final conversation as friends in ROTS). What matters to my point, rather, is that the original implications of the scenes in question, juxtaposed against the prequels/ROTJ, is evidence that Lucas made up some major saga plot points as he went along. I'm not knocking that. I'm sure, as you said, that's how he works. But to think it's such a mystery why people would think he made stuff up as he went along, is itself a mystery to me.

    That may be true, and most people who have seen Star Wars have seen the OT before the PT, hence they were able to see the stuff Lucas made up as he went.
    Last edited by Darth_Articulate, Dec 5, 2012
  10. Avnar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2007
    star 2
    The originals had HEART and you BELIEVED that the characters cared about each other!

    The prequels feel fake. The relationships are forced. Padme would never in a million years have dated a guy like Anakin... He was not charming at all -he was a creep and very weird.
  11. Avnar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2007
    star 2
    The Anakin and Obi Wan relationship didn't exist...

    I just watched Ted (which was pretty stupid) but evn the bear and the main guy pulled off a better relationship in 5 minutes than these guys could in 3 films *shakes head*
  12. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    Ok I see what that was all about now. There's a big difference between making it all up as he goes along and revising or making up many of the elements as he goes along. He definitely does the latter, but I don't doubt he also has many ideas written down that he either uses, discards, or alters to fit the story he's telling. So I don't agree that he makes it all up as he goes along, but I do agree that many of those things you pointed out are examples of places where he changed his mind.

    What I was arguing against was your use of the word "contradictions", which I still feel is inaccurate.
    Last edited by Mystery_Roach, Dec 5, 2012
  13. Lando's Little Maneuver Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    Couldn't agree more, this is the one reason I'm so thankfull for the Clone Wars as it fleshes out their relationship, and lends way more gravitas to the ending of RotS than AotC ever did.
    Clone wars Anakin is also a helluva lot cooler than PT Anakin, he should have always been the Han Solo of the PT.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  14. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Your post suggests that the main problem with TPM isn't so much that it didn't need to be told, but that it was told so unconvincingly. I would agree with that. In order for people to see the relevance of TPM to Anakin's drama, it needed to have been more dramatically told, and better integrated into the main planet-under-siege plot of the movie.
  15. ezekiel22x Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 5
    The Luke and Han friendship is pretty much defined by the "you saved me, bro!" moments. It works, as the OT was never really going for complicated or in-depth interpersonal relationships between the good guys, but I have to admit that the Luke/Han dynamic barely registers when I think of the notable things that make IV-VI work.

    Han as a whole bores me these days, though. Feels mostly like a watered down Indy Jones.
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  16. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Han Solo, seriously? :rolleyes: ! Anakin has a heroic side to him but it's overshadowed by the darker side, especially since Lucas chose to have only one movie to establish him as an adult. TCW doesn't have this kind of restriction. I wish sometimes that Episode I was Episode 0 and Episode II would be about Clone Wars and its effect on everyone in the Galaxy.
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  17. Frank_TJ_Mackey Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 6, 2000
    star 4
    Wow...Han as a whole bores you !!

    Man....if we are still talking about SW today....it's because that the first trilogy was timeless....and I personally don't know one soul in my life who doesn't like SW at all, and most of this appreciation comes from Han Solo. What kind of humor you like...."Anakin, you are gonna be the death of me ?" kind of humour ?

    If I had to name 3 reasons why SW has been alive for the past 30 years, Vader and Solo are certainly in the top 3.

    My 2 cents, but if SW fans today thinks that Solo is a boring character, well.....if the orginal three were release today....I don't think it would make enough money for a studio to produce a sequel.

    When I was young, every kid in town wanted to be Solo, not Luke...solo.....and those kids still think that "the guy who shot first" is the man.

    My 2 cents.
    Last edited by Frank_TJ_Mackey, Dec 5, 2012
  18. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    "You assume too much." --Padme
  19. MasterDillon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2010
    star 2
    Well to be fair they did dedicate an entire scene to the Obi-Wan/Anakin relationship in Episode III.
    fishtailsam likes this.
  20. Frank_TJ_Mackey Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 6, 2000
    star 4
    Honestly, in any other kind of story....she would not.......Anakin would be the type of character that would not get the girl.....the typical jock with no soul......

    Sadly...Darth Vader...as portrayed in the original story was more charismatic...

    and don't tell me I hate SW or the prequels....i'm a fan....but I'm not fond of Anaklin as a character...and Darth Vader is my favorite character of the whole saga....not as a villain...but that character had so much life into him.

    God I love James Earl Jones
    Last edited by Frank_TJ_Mackey, Dec 5, 2012
  21. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Difference in opinion. No more, no less.

    I like James Earl Jones, but that's the only point I agree with you on.

    I cannot stand ANH or ESB Darth Vader. I don't care if he had "life." He was an ***hole, and I'd rather see a character who didn't have the same "life" or "charisma" but also didn't choke innocent people for making mistakes.

    I also think it's a gross generation to assume that Anakin would "never" "get the girl". You're assuming that all women are cardboard cutouts who are only attracted to men with one type of personality. If that's the case, we should all be sold in vending machines. It's a bit insulting to us really, although I'm assuming you didn't intend it that way.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Dec 5, 2012
  22. Frank_TJ_Mackey Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 6, 2000
    star 4
    How can Anakin could get the girl as portrayed in the prequels.....in TPM he is too young and the relationship with Padme felt akward....so that's a bad way to start a romantic adventure.....even intended as a simple first step.

    After that.....in the middle of AOTC....he is more violent and an "ass###" that he will ever be....when he confesses to Padme the slaughtering of the Tusken Raiders....as a character...I felt more emotion in ESB with the Vader post the big revelation.......who spoke with his son for the first time.....and felt a connection...

    Never saw that connection with Padme...

    I've never met a girl who said that Anakin was an attractive fellow......while I've heard that Hayden was....that is telling...

    It's not a generation thing at all.....it's call taste....yours are different of mine...that's it
    Last edited by Frank_TJ_Mackey, Dec 5, 2012
  23. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Who said it was generational and who said anything about Anakin being "attractive"? That wasn't the point.

    You are assuming that Padme would not be attracted to Anakin because you have never met a girl who said he was attractive. That is exactly the kind of blanket generation that I can't stand. "Padme must agree with every girl that I know in person." Really? Because you have met every potential personality of every female who ever existed on the globe? OK.

    TPM was never intended as a start to a "romantic adventure," it was intended as a start to a friendship. Anakin was nine.

    I'm not sure what my personal taste in men has to do with anything--Anakin in AOTC is young enough to be my son, so my personal taste in men has nothing to do with this. Your presumption that this is about my personal taste is yet another generalization. And it's the blanket generalizations that I have issues with.

    People, including fictional characters, deserve to be viewed as individuals and not as stereotypes--in fact, I find fictional characters who fit into stereotypes to be extremely boring.

    All that said, it's hilarious in a way that much of the mainstream criticism of the prequels is along the lines of "the characters didn't fit into these stereotypes that I have in my head!" (I'm looking at you, Stoklasa.) To which my response is "GOOD."
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Dec 5, 2012
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  24. Frank_TJ_Mackey Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 6, 2000
    star 4
    ah ...come on...you see things through your life glasses and I do the same...

    The romantic story as told in the prequels is not credible for Me and those with whom I spoke about this.....it's not gospel...

    that's it....it was not meant to be Casablanca....I understand...but as told....it feels like a romantic story that you would find in a soap opera....like Santa Barbara........and my conclusion is not that bad....since it's a space opera....

    At least....Solo and Leia romantic ride....was not at the center of the story....so it was not perfect...but at least a bit funny..........I'm not saying that the romance was better.....but I can say that Ford and Fisher chemistry was better than the one between Hayden and Nathalie.

    So... what I''m saying is that the romance was not credible....because Anakin was simply not a guy that a girl would fell for......he's got some issues and it's pretty clear from the first frame in AOTC.......I don't say that girls don't fell for that kind of dude....but as portrayed in the prequels....and since it's the main storyline of at least one movie (AOTC)....it doesn't feel right.....

    It's not about personal romantic history or taste...it's as seen in a 4 hours Sci-fi movie....

    Based on your comment below....it's you that are putting "generation" in my mouth......can I talk from my experience in life por favor ?

    That's why I stated it was my opinion...
    Last edited by Frank_TJ_Mackey, Dec 5, 2012
  25. Lando's Little Maneuver Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2

    Sorry I meant a Han Solo type chracter. Lucas should have written him in as a rogue who went to far, not as a petulant brat who complained his way to the dark side. I think the TCW Anakin is a far more likable character than the one in the films.
    Last edited by Lando's Little Maneuver, Dec 5, 2012