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George Lucas wusses out, cuts Jar Jar's lines

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by BothofUs, May 4, 2005.

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  1. BothofUs

    BothofUs Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2003
    Jar Jar has already served his role in the saga. In Episode I he brought the Gungans and the Naboo together. Only together were they able to bring down the Trade Federation.
    In AOTC, while he served little purpose, he was given a small cameo role for continuity purposes. On top of the cameo, GL needed a fall guy to set up the beginnings of Palpatines tight grip on the Republic.
    He has served his purpose as far as I am concerned. It will be nice to see him one last time before the end, but he is no longer needed in the grand scheme of things.


    TPM: Jar Jar did something important.
    AotC: Jar Jar did something important.
    RotS: Jar Jar is seen and not heard.

    I ask you, which one does not belong in a 3-part story?
     
  2. DarthTunick

    DarthTunick SfC Part IV Commissioner star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2000
    Would somebody please tell me that I'm not the only who doesn't give a rats ass that Jar Jar's lines were cut?
     
  3. Eternal_Jedi

    Eternal_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2001
    [blockquote]From what I can tell of George Lucas and his vision, Jar Jar's character was used only as a storytelling point to reflect the feel of Prequel trilogy. He is strictly used to show how the PT started out being fun and kiddish(TPM), then mysterious(AotC) and then completely goes to hell(RotS).

    Lucas's sole purpose for Jar Jar's in TPM was to show that life before the Sith came back was very easygoing childlike. Hence, Jar Jar is barely in AotC and not in RotS, because there is nothing fun and childlike about Revenge. I appreciate Jar Jar more in TPM now because I see that he represents a mirror of Anakin's life in the PT. Anakin was once a child and yet he was tricked into becoming a monster. [/blockquote]

    I think you hit the nail on the head. Jar Jar takes on the role of an until-then unused (in Star Wars) mythical archetype, The Fool. He bumbles his way along, annoying everybody, but still manages to be unintentionally helpful in the end.

    He served his purposes in TPM. Thematically, he brings a light-hearted feel to the film, and represents innocence and good-naturedness. He serves his purpose in the story, in bringing the Naboo and the Gungans together. In the end, he was accepted back into his society as more-or-less a hero. His story arc could be considered complete at this point.

    From the perspective of the story, I don't really see there being much of a role for him in AOTC. He's no longer an outcast from his people, and doesn't even really have much reason to leave Naboo; he doesn't strike me as the adventuring type. The Gungan represntative of Naboo in the senate is about the only logical role he could fill in AOTC. He had a reason to tag along in TPM -- he was banished from his own people, and he owed a life debt to Qui-Gon.

    I never saw him having much of a substantial role in ROTS; the main story points have been established for a long time, and Jar Jar has no role to play in them. Besides, could you imagine in the outrage if it turned out that Anakin actually decided to let Obi-Wan help him after the duel, but Jar Jar stumbled into Obi-Wan, causing him to push Anakin into a lava pit? ;-)

    I think he should have a couple of lines in ROTS, particularly a reaction to Palpatine declaring himself Emperor, and realizing that it was partly his fault. However, in the Making of ROTS book, Lucas is telling Hayden that upon re-thinking the film after principal photography, he's decided that the film should be summed up in one word: Anakin. Thus, the narrative of the film is focused on Anakin's journey, and parts that were tangental may not be included.

    If Jar Jar had been more popular with moviegoers, then I think Lucas might have gone out of his way to include Jar Jar in ROTS. But I don't think Jar Jar was ever destined for more than a very minor role in ROTS.

     
  4. Jedi_Master_Grover

    Jedi_Master_Grover Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Jar-Jar: "Yousa Jedi gonna die"
     
  5. MajorNerd

    MajorNerd Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2004
    the thread is actually more about WHY jar jar doesn't speak in ROTS than anyone actually caring about him imparticular...
     
  6. Eternal_Jedi

    Eternal_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2001
    [blockquote]I was trying to read Eternal Jedi's post, but it was taking an eternity to read it. [/blockquote]

    Would you like me to read it out to you?
     
  7. DARTHJADO

    DARTHJADO Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2001
    He may have served his purpose, but so did Solo in ANH, but we found something for HIM to do!
    Why he and Luke (both high in command in the Rebellion) had to place sensors on Hoth, I'll NEVER know!
    And why did the Alliance allow SUCH a command crew on Endor in ROTJ!? They had to find SOMETHING for each of those characters who shared so much screen time in the FIRST beloved movie to do!

    It's just that NOBODY (with few exceptions) LIKED Jar Jar Binks. To me, Jar Jar was like wanting to add Roger Rabbit to Terms of Endearment. He RUINED it for me!
    Meesa ANNOYING! Meesa in EVERY FRAME! Meesa all OVER the place! Meesa outplaying REAL actors!
     
  8. ImperialMarchFace

    ImperialMarchFace Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2002
    If Jar-Jar IS in the movie, and just isn't actually heard from, then that's fine.
    There is no NEED for Jar-Jar to speak in ROTS. Besides giving a character that we've seen in the past 2 Episodes a line or two, he is useless. He has nothing to do. So put him in the Senate, put him at Padme's funeral, and for the love of all things good in the Star Wars universe don't let him talk.
     
  9. darth_calvin

    darth_calvin Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Wait a minute. Are we now comparing Jar Jar to Han? Han offered valuable skills that were a great asset to the rebellion. It's not hard to see why he would be kept around. What valuable skills would anyone find in Jar Jar?
     
  10. Jedi_Master_Grover

    Jedi_Master_Grover Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2005
    His long tongue.

    Everybody has to have at least one special skill.
     
  11. EwokThatCried

    EwokThatCried Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 22, 2003
    The thing I thought was ridiculous about Jar-Jar in AOTC was that he did not appear on the balcony with Palpatine, Bail and the other delegates at the end as the troops are embarking to war. Tarded.

    I like Jar-Jar. And I like even more the fact that he bothered everyone. That's what he was supposed to do.
     
  12. Jedidude22

    Jedidude22 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2005
    why is everyone so mad he cut his lines??? way back whe nmenace came out everyone was b******* about how he was even in the movie and now you are mad they cut his lines???
     
  13. MANDALORIAN

    MANDALORIAN Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 1999

    I can't agree with that. Jar Jar wasn't intended to be a fully digital character at the time of writing TPM. Many of Jar Jar's scenes were shot with takes of Ahmed Best in the expensive Jar Jar suit, as they were still considering just doing a head replacement animation for the character. It simply worked out as being no more costly and time-consuming to fully animate the character than to just animate the head and get in synched up with how the body was moving.

    No. In interviews before the script was even written both Lucas and McCallum were boasting how TPM would be the first film to have a fully digital character in a major role. The suit was never good enough to stand up to filming - Best was always going to be replaced.


    The main difference I see between the "old" Lucas and the "new" Lucas is that the new one has a much more flexible and robust set of tools to build what he has imagined. I don't really know where this "CGI above all else" idea keeps coming from. For a lot of things, it's simply the best tool for the job. There are still plently of models and costumes used in making the films. If what you're saying is true, why doesn't he just film the actors wearing blue suits in a blue room, and build all of the sets and costumes in CGI? Why does ILM still have a miniatures department? Heck, why doesn't Lucas just forget about using human actors, and get ILM to work on animated human characters that surpass those of Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within?

    Its getting pretty close. In the vast majority of scenes the actor is the only physical element. BTS pictures show seas of blue and green screen and very little else. In ROTS there was NO location filming because Lucas wanted it all done on computer. In TPM and AOTC the battles are as animated as anything Pixar does - it all looks too cartoony.
    As for animating human characters - Lucas has said that this is his ambition.

    Almost all the sets are CGI. He makes up characters JUST so they can be CGI - Dex, Kamino people, Seperatists, Gungans, Geonosians.

    Lucas even makes the Clonetroopers CGI ! Rather than pay an Extra $50 a day to run around in a costume he would rather spend thousands on computer animation. The result? Technically impressive but still 'off'. Look at the Jedi strolling through the temple with a CG gait. Look at the pointlessness of Anakin riding the Space Flea thing. And what is the point in CGI fruit?
    Listen to DVD commentaries. All about effects.
    Lucas claims he waited years for technology to allow him to make these films but there was never anything in the backstory that required such effects. None of the CGI is important to the story - it is simply digital masturbation.
    And for all the CGI craziness, the OT is still much more popular. Must drive Lucas mad.


    Seriously, if that were the case, it would be simpler just to create a totally animated film, like what Pixar does.

    As I said, its not far off.


    And again, the relationship between Anakin and Palpatine is hinted at in one of TPM's final scenes. TPM doesn't need to show this relationship; the main story arc occuring behind-the-scenes in TPM is the story of how Senator Palpatine comes into power, and puts the pieces in place for him to declare himself Emperor. Anakin doesn't come into the picture, for Palpatine, until after the board is set up, and he's ready to start making his moves.

    I am well aware of the story. But more needed to be done. The Anakin-Palpatine scene was put in at the last minute at someone elses suggestion. Perhaps Lucas was too busy thinking Gungans and Battle Droids.

    It is intentional that we don't see a hint of the Dark Side of Anakin in TPM. That was the whole point of his character being the way he was. He was supposed to be an innocent, good-natured kid. The point of the story of the prequels is how a child such as this, totally untouched by evil, can become the monster that we know as Darth Vader.

    But we haven't seen that. We jump forward ten years to a whiny obnoxious teen and then jump forwar
     
  14. YARN

    YARN Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Mandalorian, you are correct
     
  15. Panakas_Dawg

    Panakas_Dawg Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Luke: We could buy our own ship for that much.

    Han: Look, kid. This isn't some half-trugat Bongo we're talking about here.

    Luke: A what?

    Han: Bongo. Transport. Skiff. Jeez - you never have been off this planet, have you?

    Obi Wan: Is she fast?

    Han: Ever seen Royal Naboo Cruisers?

    Obi Wan: Once or twice.

    Han: Faster.
     
  16. Deeysew

    Deeysew Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2005
    Meesa ANNOYING! Meesa in EVERY FRAME! Meesa all OVER the place! Meesa outplaying REAL actors!

    This made my day. Thank you so much. LOLx1138348298

    I don't know whether people who want more binks are joking or not, but please tell me you wanted him to grow and mature too and not be the same old cartoony weirdo he was in the first two. We already have a general Grievous and at least he does coool things and uses lightsabers.
     
  17. dehrian

    dehrian Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 1999
    I'd rather have people complaining that Jar Jar's cut than that Jar Jar is in the film, myself.
     
  18. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE

    ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 27, 2001
    I can conclude two things:

    (1) When Lucas leaves Jar Jar in the movies, people complain that he is talentless and is ruining the Prequels.

    (2) When Lucas takes Jar Jar out of the movies, people complain he is a sellout and a wuss.

    Lucas will never be able to make his fans happy, ever.


    I like Jar Jar and miss his presence, but his lack of a role isn't enough to make me call Lucas a hack. And if Lucas did cut Jar Jar because of the fans, I don't blame him. When you have half the world complaining about a character and wishing death to that character, its hard as a creator to ignore that ;)
     
  19. Jedi_Nath

    Jedi_Nath Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2005
    You do know that JarJar survives till the start of "EpisodeIV", when the Emporer has taken care of the senate, its meaning that JarJar has finally been killed slowly and painfuly in a torture chamber which Vader and Palpatine go to often to relieve stress...
    If you believed that, you should savour the thought of JarJar dieing a slow and painful death... :D
     
  20. Shelley

    Shelley Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2001
    Lucas will never be able to make his fans happy, ever.

    Fans my ***.

    These are the same people who think Lucas should listen to every word they say and make his movies according to their every whim?

    "Lucas, you suck! I hate you! All you care about is FX!

    But you should also do this, this and this in the movies, because I say so! Why aren't you listening to me?"
     
  21. DARTHJADO

    DARTHJADO Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2001
    I don't think Lucas should have listened to EVERY word I say, just... most!!
     
  22. Guybrush

    Guybrush Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2001
    Don't worry, you will get plenty of Jar Jar later on....that's what the T.V. series is all about. The adventures of Jar Jar and friends.
     
  23. BothofUs

    BothofUs Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2003
    I can conclude two things:

    (1) When Lucas leaves Jar Jar in the movies, people complain that he is talentless and is ruining the Prequels.

    (2) When Lucas takes Jar Jar out of the movies, people complain he is a sellout and a wuss.

    Lucas will never be able to make his fans happy, ever.


    You, like everyone else is pointing out the obvious. That is why we ask for a happy medium, like in AotC. Don't tell me people complained that Jar Jar was still in AotC, becuase most people were happy with his role in Ep. 2.
     
  24. Unkar's Muffins

    Unkar's Muffins Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 4, 2002
    Severe props to MALADORIAN for this excellent posting:

    "Lucas even makes the Clonetroopers CGI ! Rather than pay an Extra $50 a day to run around in a costume he would rather spend thousands on computer animation. The result? Technically impressive but still 'off'. Look at the Jedi strolling through the temple with a CG gait. Look at the pointlessness of Anakin riding the Space Flea thing. And what is the point in CGI fruit?
    Listen to DVD commentaries. All about effects.
    Lucas claims he waited years for technology to allow him to make these films but there was never anything in the backstory that required such effects. None of the CGI is important to the story - it is simply digital masturbation.
    And for all the CGI craziness, the OT is still much more popular. Must drive Lucas mad."


    I believe Lucas is trying to make a lasting impression on the entertainment industry outside of Star Wars, by being a digital engineering pioneer.

    One thing I will give digital, it looks way better (usually) than stop motion animation.

    I particularly liked your comment "space flea thing"! LOL! [face_laugh] That was a totally annoying scene to me.

    My main problem with CG at this point is (about the only one that I think shows a strong presence) is its lack of proper organic physics. For backgrounds and inorganic things, it looks great. But the living? That's another thing. Typically, gait and jumping moves always look the mostest fakest. I still, for the life of me, can't figure out why they can't improve in these areas.
     
  25. DarthScubbles

    DarthScubbles Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Jar Jar was just a gimmick. GL playing with the idea of an all digital major character. Now, nine years later, this is not a big feat. There is no reason for his major role. Plus he took a lot of heat for this character and Jar Jar is not important to this story at all.
     
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