George to fans: "You must unlearn what you have learned."

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Juan_Tufte, Feb 13, 2003.

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  1. Juan_Tufte Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    star 1
    The prequels are changing the way we watch -- and interpret -- the Star Wars saga. In fact, every SW film released after "A New Hope" has revised the Star Wars story. And Episode III, which I'm sure has a few surprises in store, has yet to be released.

    TESB revealed Darth Vader and Luke's father were one and the same. ROTJ surprised us when Leia turned out to be Luke's sister. In ANH:SE we found out Greedo shot first, and that Han confronted Jabba face-to-face before leaving Tatooine. TPM introduced Qui-Gon as Obi-Wan's mentor, leaving a few fans wondering to what extent Yoda had really "instructed" Obi-Wan. We also saw that it was initially Qui-Gon's idea to train Anakin as a Jedi, not Obi-Wan's. And then there are the midichlorians! We learned in AOTC that Boba Fett and his father played an instrumental role in the rise of the Empire, and that Yoda wasn't just a Jedi master, he was a military leader! ("General" Kenobi is nowhere to be seen.)

    This is just the tip of the iceberg. The things we thought were obvious or self-evident in the original trilogy are being called into question by the prequel trilogy and the Special Editions. In some cases they are being flat-out contradicted. Of course, the reverse is also true! Those raised on the prequels may see the OT as a departure from the "established" story.

    So, what other elements in Star Wars have we had to "unlearn"? And what do you think we'll have to "unlearn" when Episode III comes out in 2005?
  2. Juan_Tufte Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    star 1
    I guess I'll go first.

    One thing that changed in the PT was the idea of Jedi training. This wasn't discussed in-depth in the OT, but you got the sense that the way one became a Jedi was to study and train under an experienced Jedi knight, or preferably, a Jedi master.

    And that was it! No school, academy, or Jedi camp; it was an informal process, and you were trained one-on-one. You were a Jedi when your instructor decided you were a Jedi. No council or "trials" determined if you could wear the title. Also, age didn't matter. Whether you were eighteen or eighty, it seemed that anyone could learn the ways of the force if he was willing to work hard, and if there was a wise teacher to guide him.

    The PT gave us a Jedi bureaucracy. You could not just train anyone, you had to get permission from the Council. You had to attend class with other students. Then you were assigned a mentor. Plus, age mattered. So did your midichlorian count. And you had no choice whether to be raised as a Jedi. You couldn't opt for a "regular" childhood, raised by two parents and whatnot.

    I always figured that Jedi training was similar to Mr. Miyagi's in The Karate Kid. Like Luke, Daniel LaRusso is just a regular kid. He's not exceptionally smart or athletic. He's good at soccer in the same way Luke is good at flying. But he's got Mr. Miyagi there to teach him the way of karate. By the end of the movie, we not only know Daniel's going to win the karate tournament, we BELIEVE it.
  3. MacIntoshyStation Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2003
    I hated "unlearning" that instead of heroically plunging to a quite possible death Luke had actually screamed like a punk in the SE.
  4. stacysatrip Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2002
    star 4
    We'll have to understand that Darth Vader was not just an evil, soulless villain. He was a good person once, and that person never did quite go away.
  5. Darth-Protius Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2002
    star 3
    I agree with MacIntoshyStation on this issue.
  6. The_Anakin_Wannabe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2003
    star 4
    I think you'll find most of the 'plot holes' of the PT are just a result of what fans assumed. We assumed that Yoda was the only Jedi who trained Obi-Wan. This isn't a plot hole. We are learning alot about what we thought was Star Wars with the PT and I like it.

    As for the SE, don't change anything that will affect the storyline or a character. Lukes scream on Bespin affect his character. Greedo shooting first affects Han's character. These shouldn't have been changed.
  7. Juan_Tufte Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    star 1
    I think you'll find most of the 'plot holes' of the PT are just a result of what fans assumed. We assumed that Yoda was the only Jedi who trained Obi-Wan.

    This is a perfectly reasonable assumption. The Jedi training in Episodes IV-VI is one-on-one, teacher-student. A Star Wars fan seeing TPM for the first time is naturally going to wonder, "Wasn't Yoda Obi-Wan's instructor? Who's this Qui-Gon dude?" Lucas never explicitly addresses this issue. We don't see or hear about Yoda "handing off" his pupil to Qui-Gon or some such. Therefore, many fans are left to wonder if this is sloppy writing on Lucas's part.

    From what I've seen in TPM and AOTC, I can only conclude that Yoda was Obi-Wan's first grade teacher in Jedi elementary school.
  8. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    "We assumed that Yoda was the only Jedi who trained Obi-Wan."

    Well, based on ESB dialogue it's not all that big of an assumption:

    -There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me.

    -You are reckless!
    -So was I, if you remember.


    Which, as an aside, where is this "reckless" Obi-Wan?
  9. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    The reckless Obi-Wan was long before TPM, when he was still being instructed by Yoda:
    - Was I any different when you taught me?
  10. Emos-Edud Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2002
    star 4
    The biggest thing that we must unlearn is something that we were never actually taught on-screen, but something that we assumed... that Palpatine is Sidious.

    Wrongo. The former is the latter's clone. Start that unlearning now and you can join the ranks of the "I-told-you-sos" in 2005.
  11. Jack-D-Ripper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2002
    star 2
    ^That is possible, even likely, but I personally don't think its going to be the case. Clone or not, Sidious and Palpatine are related. Same individual or not, they are part of the plan to take control of the Republic. Thus is really doesn't matter, and things that don't matter are seldom part of a film plot.

    As for the PT "violating" some of the history of the OT, I don't really care if it contradicts it or not: they're all entertaining films that actually can stand by themselves every bit as much as they can work together as a series. I kind of think of the PT as a variation on a theme rather than a clear-cut beginning to the story.

    -JDR.
  12. The_Anakin_Wannabe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2003
    star 4
    Im not saying that assuming Yoda was the only one to train Obi-Wan was unreasonable. I was a little surprised when Qui-Gon came in and was teaching Obi-Wan. However when we get the bigger picture of Jedi traning, Yoda infact did train Obi-Wan.
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