Get off Lucas' back!!!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by DarthWolfie, Jul 7, 2002.

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  1. guittarjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    Face it,fart jokes are cheap and SW used to be above that. If I want toilet humor I'll watch "Scary Movie 2".
  2. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    it's not that star wars is above anything, it just didn't used to be that style, and it still doesn't fit. star wars was originally an epic mixed-myth tale with sophisticated humor (see yoda in empire for some actual funny stuff) which most of us have come to expect in each subsequent star wars film.
    some of us think creatures farting on other creatures is funny (middle school kids)
    those seem to be the same people that thought attack of the clones was the best star wars movie ever, and the phantom menace was tied with a new hope for the worst.
  3. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    I have to say first off I am very much in agreement with Go-Mer here.

    And those who think Lucas owes you something, I just think that is pathetic.

    And for one thing I found the 2 jokes in TPM funny but I've never had much of a sense of humour, I fond most of 3PO's jokes annoying and more so than anything involving Jar Jar.

    Also someone called Jar Jar a frog, bingo exactly. He is just like that little creature and I wont presume you hate frogs but to many people frogs are disgusting creatures and hate them, and its that prejudice which *may* have translated towards Jar Jar. Its sad to see that how easily these things come out.

    And really I became a fan of SW because of TPM care to tell me that I am misguided? That my judgement of what I think is good, is in actuality wrong? I find the prequels more interesting than the OT (which is the point I presume) because we are getting into the anti-hero understanding why he became an evil person. Thats what I want to know.

    Anyway George Lucas is finishing his story in his own way. And I for one don't care what he promised some of you, I care about what he gives me and he has given me so far 2 films which have struck my emotions and given me a connection that no other film has.
  4. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    Anyway George Lucas is finishing his story in his own way. And I for one don't care what he promised some of you, I care about what he gives me and he has given me so far 2 films which have struck my emotions and given me a connection that no other film has.

    My thoughts exactly!
  5. Nephrite Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 1
    And really I became a fan of SW because of TPM care to tell me that I am misguided? That my judgement of what I think is good, is in actuality wrong?

    I like TPM too, whick makes me an idiot by basher's account.
  6. Admiral_JasterMereel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2002
    star 4
    Idiot or no idiot, I don't think your an idiot...
  7. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I only point out the flaws in the classic trilogy, because many of you act like it didn't have any. There is nothing in the prequels that is any worse than the kinds of things we had to put up with in the classic trilogy.

    It's called being objective.
  8. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    some of us think creatures farting on other creatures is funny (middle school kids)
    those seem to be the same people that thought attack of the clones was the best star wars movie ever, and the phantom menace was tied with a new hope for the worst.


    That doesn't make any sense. If you thought fart jokes were funny, then wouldn't TPM be your favorite? AOTC is the most adult movie of all of them with complex themes and blurred lines between good and evil. AOTC is my favorite and ANH/ESB are tied for 2nd. That's followed closely by ROTJ and by far my least favorite is TPM.
  9. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    foxbat - you would think so, huh?

    can someone please explain to me why you think attack of the clones is better than a new hope?
    in my opinion, no star wars movie has been able to top the first. (the first is a new hope, for all you youngsters out there [face_devil])

    compare and contrast.
    foxbat - how was clones more adult and complex than anh?
  10. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    "I'll happily exeperience the blah-ness of watching AOTC if it means I get to have the joy of watching a Memento, or a Glengary Glen Ross."

    Well, with all due respect Jen, there's your problem right there. I don't go to a Star Wars movie expecting Glengary Glen Ross or Memento. I go expecting a big fun space adventure with lots of cool spaceships, monsters and aliens, and some interesting themes and subplots under the surface (if you can be bothered to look for them).

    I just saw AOTC for the fifth time today, and I'm afraid I have to agree with Go-Mer. Sure there are some slow bits in the first hour, and the romance still makes me cringe in places. But other than that this is the best Star Wars film I've seen in, oh about twenty years. I don't hate anyone who dislikes AOTC, but I do feel sorry for them. I guess I'm just a sensitive guy ;)
  11. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    In ANH, the story was simple. It was clear cut Good V. Evil, Rebellion V. Empire, Luke V. Vader. There was no doubt about who was good and who was bad. In AOTC you have the main character who is supposed to be a good guy, slaughter a bunch of people. Then the good guys actually lose in the end. Dooku appears first as a neutral guy but turns out to be bad. It's even made clear that many of the wise Jedi are arrogant. In AOTC you wonder if you should even be rooting for the main character, Anakin. And as cheesy as you may think the love story is, it's something ANH didn't even touch with a 10 foot pole.
  12. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    :eek:

    that was a good, and brief evaluation, foxbat, well-done. i'm almost convinced. maybe the nostalgia affects my judgment, or maybe it's that ep2 was originally over 3 hrs, so i'm feeling the loss of those cut scenes. although the conflict of anh is less complex, and you know who's who and everyone's intentions within moments of seeing them on-screen, anh has something that clones struggled with a bit - pacing. it starts off with some action, justifiably in the middle of the story, then slows down to some great characterizations, witty yet informative and enlightening dialogue exchanges, and a well-told movement from point a to point b. the cinematography is more comfortable and beautiful than aotc's, imo, and the directing is so far the best of the series. in clones the progression is more choppy, splitting off in several directions, drifting from action sequence to action sequence. not too much action, but some of it unneccessary, and there just because 'it looks cool' - ie, jango vs. obi, coruscant chase scene, yoda spinning like a top with a lightsaber attached...
  13. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    although the conflict of anh is less complex, and you know who's who and everyone's intentions within moments of seeing them on-screen, anh has something that clones struggled with a bit - pacing

    The first few times I saw AOTC I would have agreed with you Zeek. Now however, I don't have a problem with AOTC's pacing at all-- in fact, I think it's great. The story really moves and doesn't dwell on things that would slow it down when you watch it over and over agian. GL has said that the SW movies are made to be watched multiple times (according to the TPM DVD commentary). Therefore, I think most people won't mind the pacing when they watch it on DVD again and again.
  14. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    I think that's were we differ-pacing. I thought AOTC's pacing was the best of the series, while ANH had some of the slowest parts and takes forever to really get going. Most of the time spent on tatooine at the beginning in ANH is a total bore. At least AOTC throws us some cool scenes during the slower parts. I'm not gonna lie and say I don't like those cool fight scenes. Heck I love them, that's always been something I've loved about SW. ANH death star trench run is absolutely terrific and extremely well directed but I just don't think it compares to the last 45 minutes of AOTC. As far as cinematography goes, you can't say that ANH had better cinematography than AOTC or vice versa. They are both good, but different styles. It's just a matter of personal taste to which you prefer. ANH was more documentary style while AOTC was more epic. I also prefer the rich and vibrant colors of AOTC to greyness of ANH. It could be said that the greyness of ANH represents the dark ages of the Empire and for that I respect it. But visually, AOTC was more pleasing to my eyes.
  15. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    The battles that are witnessed in AOTC are usually large in scale. I know that Lucas didn't have enough money or the technology in those days to create large scale battles, but compare the attack on Hoth or the Death Star I and they seem small. [face_plain]

    I still like them though. 8-}
  16. JediLord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2000
    star 4
    I hate toilet humor. HATE IT. Rarely do I ever find it funny. Yet, I did not let that ruin TPM for me. I loved it. IF you let a few things like that ruin it for you, don't blame GL for you being too sensitive.
  17. zeekveerko Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2002
    star 5
    true, i prefer the slow, often considered boring, scenes of anh to the gratuitous action of clones - i guess that's why i like phantom menace better than clones as well. imo, the death star trench run is the worst part about anh. it just went on far too long.

    i much prefer this type of intelligent conversation to the wars. i'm inspired to go see clones again before it leaves the theater, so i can reevaluate the movie with these new perspectives in mind.
  18. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    i love this! real discussion!

    thank the maker!

    nice points all around.

    i agree that much of ones opinion about AOTC and various elements within is a matter of taste. i have friends that have been fans since 1977. we are split, about 70% of us negative, 30% positive. we all fall in the negative category on TPM, however. im still hoping episode 3 will have more universally positive response from the fans.
  19. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    Zeekverko,

    Before you see AOTC again, you might want to check of the OFFICAL LOVE STORY DISCUSSION THREAD, as well as the FIVE GREATEST SCENES DIRECTED BY GL, if you haven't checked them out already. They can provide interesting insights to the movie.
  20. Lagniappe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 1999
    star 4
    Just a note: I never said the "toilet humor" in TPM ruined the film for me...it was just one of MANY things that made the movie less than stellar in my book.


    "It´s not even close to those new teen movies , where for example sombody´s eating a sandwich with dog sperm in it."

    Well....this is probably a very good reason why I avoid most "teen films". Frankly, I didn't like teen films much when I *was* a teen...


    Apparently, since I can't see the humor in things like eating dog sperm, I have a "not fully functional" sense of humor.

    I prefer to think of it as good taste. ;)
  21. Kryatt_Dragon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2002
    star 2
    Go-Mer-Tonic,

    I'm amazed at your personal attacks. I really thought "you" knew better :(

    Some of you guys really make me embarrassed to call myself a Star Wars fan, and with "fans" like you, we would deserve it if Lucas just stopped right where he was at without putting out Episode III and told us all to go to hell.

    Oh really? We make you embarrassed? Come on, Go-mer, that's nonsense and you know it. You're saying that purely for effect and you're not fooling anyone. Furthermore, I myself, wouldn't care if George stopped in his tracks but I don't wish it because I know it wouldn't be fair to other fans. And as far as I'm concerned he's already told me and a million other guys like me to go to hell so I sure as hell don't care about him! And if you think he gives a leaping turd about you you are seriously delusional my friend. The man said himself he's making these movies for "him"...for "him" and everything else is mere consequence. You don't even have to read the fine print. He's stated that he's making the movies for "him" and that's probably the only thing he says that this basher takes at face value.

    At least I know after the time spent here that there was nothing Lucas could have done to meet your "ransom" list of demands for the prequels.

    LOL...ransom list of demands? Ahhh, the consumate ad hominen personal attack. Insteaad of acknowledging that the prequels could've been better you blame the bashers for being impossible to please. You can say it all you want, Go-Mer, but it'll never be true.

    The irony is you claim to be some kind of harbingers of "quality", while you are blind to the actual substance of the prequels so far. You really beleive they are pointless. I would be able to accept that if you didn't see what others couldn't in the classic trilogy.

    I never said the prequels were completely lacking in substance. First of all, what is substance? How can you make this claim if you know full-well that what bashers consider to be substance is different than what gushers consider it. I never said the prequels were pointless either. Where are you getting this from Go-Mer? Please try to do a better job of qualifying your arguments.

    P.S. - Lucas owes me everything!!! :p
  22. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    this was my response in another thread re: the potential of the prequels vs. the actuality...


    how yoda became the most powerful jedi was just an example. that still leaves an infinite number of other stories that could have been told INSTEAD of one we already know. IMO the backstory of anakin could easily have been told in one film, or even part of one film, much like the origin of indiana jones in "the last crusade".

    i understand the point about historical continuity, (someone said my post about the stories of the PT having been told already was like complaining about knowing the end of titanic or jfk before you see the movie) but who says the prequels HAVE to be within the immediate historical continuity of the OT? its fiction, you can do anything you want. why limit the possibilities?

    if you know your early star wars history, you know that lucas himself originally intended the first film, the original episode I, to be about the origins of the jedi and the sith. episode II was to be about yoda and his eventual training of obi wan, and episode III was to be about the rise of the sith and the rise and fall of anakin, up to the point he became darth vader. not that far from what they ended up being, but certainly the original plan was more epic, expansive, and had greater potential for depth and variety than the direction the PT has gone so far.

    and before you say he has too much story to tell, take a moment and think of sweeping epics like lawrence of arabia and little big man that tell an entire life story in one film.

    the PT had massive potential. now its all gone down the drain. i will hope for episode III, but it seems it will be more of a ten minute story told in two hours.

    in other news:

    go-mer said "1) Lucas owes you NOTHING. He earned the money you gave him by making the classic trilogy and related merchandise. You weren't buying stock with Lucasfilm. You purchased a film/toy/book, and you got a film/toy/book. END OF TRANSACTION."

    if thats the END OF TRANSACTION, how do we owe HIM anything?

    but go-mer says alot of things, most notably rude personal attacks that would get others banned, so i take it with a grain of salt.

    also the much repeated idea that the OT had the same flaws as the PT is nullified by the idea that yes, flaws exist in the OT and the PT, but the OT flaws are simply not as debilating to the saga as they are in the PT. again, there is a difference between corny dialogue and terrible dialogue, they can both be considered "flaws" even though there is a huge difference in degree. the OT may have had corny moments, but never any terrible ones. i cant say the same for the PT.

    hell, AOTC made me like ROTJ more than i used to... maybe episode III will be so terrible that it makes TPM and AOTC look better.

  23. JenX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    Go-Mer-tonic

    I only point out the flaws in the classic trilogy, because many of you act like it didn't have any. There is nothing in the prequels that is any worse than the kinds of things we had to put up with in the classic trilogy.

    It's called being objective



    No, actually it's called being subjective. In your subjective opinion, the OT is just as flawed as the PT. I don't agree. So, your subjective opinions of the films don't match up to mine. I think the OT (particularly ROTJ) has plenty of flaws, but no where near as many as the PT

    DarthHomer

    "I'll happily exeperience the blah-ness of watching AOTC if it means I get to have the joy of watching a Memento, or a Glengary Glen Ross."

    Well, with all due respect Jen, there's your problem right there. I don't go to a Star Wars movie expecting Glengary Glen Ross or Memento. I go expecting a big fun space adventure with lots of cool spaceships, monsters and aliens, and some interesting themes and subplots under the surface (if you can be bothered to look for them).



    Oh, for...

    DarthHomer, of course I don't go into a film called Attack of the clones expecting to see a film about salesmen and widowers bent on avenging their wives murder. My point was that I don't mind if I don't enjoy a film because I have certain standards, because it means I get to enjoy films even more when they do meet those standards.


    ANH, TESB and (to a lesser extent) ROTJ met those standards.


    I'm not sure how you could so completely miss the point of my post. It was kind of obvious.
  24. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    Go-Mer-Tonic

    "You ungrateful, spoiled, selfish, and thoughtlessly dismissive examples of bad manners."

    Just a reminder that you don't actually KNOW these people. Stop pretending you are a Psychologist. You are a VIDEO GAME CONSULTANT. Repeat that to yourself a few times.


    "1) Lucas owes you NOTHING. He earned the money you gave him by making the classic trilogy and related merchandise. You weren't buying stock with Lucasfilm. You purchased a film/toy/book, and you got a film/toy/book. END OF TRANSACTION."

    WRONG! Lucas owes us quality too. You pay money for a GOOD film. It isn't JUST a film. If the customers walk out disatisfied with a meal, they are entitled to discuss why they didn't enjoy it.

    Me: "Yuck my Steak is raw"
    Go-Mer: "You paid for steak. You got steak."

    Once again your logic is not actually logic at all is it?

    "2) Lucas included humor in TPM that only people with fully armed and operational senses of humor found funny. Just because you happen to be crotchety, and less easily amused as other people doesn't mean Jar-Jar stepping in poop or getting farted on isn't funny to those of us who are."

    Some people also find burning cats funny. I am glad that I do not have an operational sense of humour in those instances. Just because yours is fully armed and operational during TPM, doesn't mean that it is genuine humour. Just remember my little example if you can.

    "you guys really make me embarrassed to call myself a Star Wars fan, and with "fans" like you, we would deserve it if Lucas just stopped right where he was at without putting out Episode III and told us all to go to hell."

    You are embarassed? I'd sooner take any grumpy fan home to meet my family over one that carries the Lucas bible in his top pocket at all times. Lucas would be embarassed to read your blind devotion.

    least I know after the time spent here that there was nothing Lucas could have done to meet your "ransom" list of demands for the prequels."

    And nothing he could do to displease you. If poop gags in SW films don't make you cringe then there is little he COULD do to offend you.

    e irony is you claim to be some kind of harbingers of "quality", while you are blind to the actual substance of the prequels so far. You really beleive they are pointless. I would be able to accept that if you didn't see what others couldn't in the classic trilogy. You guys SHOULD know better than this."

    That's because we all love the Classic Trilogy more than you. We never fell asleep during the Dagobah bits nor did we coach ourselves to enjoy the original SW like yourself. It's ok, you are still learning but you will never have that experience of spontaneous joy that we had. You need to use a lot of reasoning to experience this emotion. I pity you.
  25. Rowland Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 1
    This is getting to be quite funny, will there never be an end?

    Sounds to me like some people on here are clutching straws in a maddening attempt to stack up to the well-grounded opinions of the people who don't take the flaws of the PT with a grain of salt. That is unfortunate. I just hope nobody lets their own personal opinion of these movies get swayed by anybody else. That happened to me with TPM back in the day, however I have grown to love the movie and it has a certain goofy charm and appeal that when matched with the interesting story makes quite a confused and entertaining narrative. Same goes for AOTC. I believe everyone realizes these movies could have been so much better. I certainly do. However, I have accepted the mindset Lucas is in, and by the time AOTC came out, I knew what to expect, and unsurprsingly, it was quite what I expected. Sure, on a level it is dissapointing. However, I manage to enjoy the movies for what they are, and I find myself enjoying them very much. Sure, they arent brilliant filmmaking, my any means. Watching every Star Wars film, I can think of many ways that I personally would of handled things for the better. Everyone does that with all movies, and it doesnt bother me. Usually, I tend to have high standards, Star Wars is one of few exceptions that I allow to slip by. I don't expect the same quality of filmmaking as of that found in an opus like Mulholland Drive, or 2001. I've come to expect a goofy serial yarn mixed with non-convential political overtones, dark and light themes mixed at every turn, goofy dialogue, and beautiful images mixed with X-Box graphics. Somehow, I still manage to love it.
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