Get off Lucas' back!!!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by DarthWolfie, Jul 7, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    "However, I have accepted the mindset Lucas is in"

    and what mindset could that possibly be? my guess is its the same mindset he had when he told kurtz and kershner "it's good enough".
  2. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    Can't we all just...get along? 8-}

    My 100th Post! :)

  3. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    The next person to jump on Lucas's back gets a spankering!

    Read my sig and make sure to word your next post very carefully, bashers :mad:
  4. I_WAS_JUST_BANNED Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2002
    star 1
    It really amazes me how far some people will go to defend something they hold dear. What bothers me is how low the loud, obnoxious minority of PT haters will stoop to point out their comparative disappointment of the PT to the OT.

    Some claim Lucas is in it only for the money and no longer cares about the story. If that were true, we would have seen 3 different versions of the OT on DVD by now, but we haven't. We also would have seen ANY of the Star Wars movies on Pay-Per-View or even regularly on Pay Cable movie stationslike HBO, but we haven't.

    Some claim the acting is not "corny" like in the OT, but simply poor in the PT.
    Luke from ESB: "That's not true!!! Thats impossible!!!" Probably the worst delivery of poorly written dialog in ALL of the Star Wars films, OT and PT. I won't even bring up "Toshi Station" or the entire end sequence of ANH, which looks like a set-up for a big awful musical number. Who really gets to decide between "corny" and "terrible"?

    And what it all boils down to, George Lucas wanted to make great Special Effects films. He himself has said this many times. In this respect, the PT kicks the living crap out of the OT, no question. If he's accomplished what he set out to do, and he's happy with his movies, Get off George Lucas' Back!!! He wants you to see them and enjoy them, not put them under a microscope and dissect them. I could find a million things wrong with ANY film, even a masterpiece, Oscar winning one if I wanted to. But I don't. Some of you need to stop wanting to find things you don't like about the PT and find something more constructive and less neurotic to do with your time than to over analyze the PT just to justify your aging process. You have to get old, you don't have to grow up. And don't go there...I'm 30 not 15.
  5. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    my guess is its the same mindset he had when he told kurtz and kershner "it's good enough".

    Saying, "It's good enough," in the course of film production is perfectly valid, and only those ignorant of the production process would even question this statement (no doubt taken out of context, but it's a valid statement none the less). When someone says, "It's good enough," it means exactly that. It doesn't mean, "I know it sucks, but leave it." It doesn't mean, "I don't feel like wasting money to get it right." It means, "Any further tinkering will make this different but not necessarily better. Leave it alone because it's good enough."

    This is why this thread is pleading with people to "Get off Lucas' back!!!" We have people who think they know more about Star Wars than George Lucas and who think they know more about making movies than George Lucas telling Lucas how he should be making Star Wars movies! It would be laughable if it wasn't so obnoxious.
  6. JediMaster22 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 1999
    star 8
    WHY CAN'T GL just Input the ideas for the story, write it, and let some GOOD writers to finish the screenplay (that screenwriter is famous for winning Oscars,etc) then let his good friend Steven Speilberg (Who can Direct greatest) to Direct the third movie???

    WHY???!!! It's his baby I know, but don't he see a lot of fans aren't happy with his abilities to direct actors???

    I RESPECT GL, just like I respect anyone else at work, etc. However, he NEEDS to take constructive critism like these to HEART, and find a way to redeem his baby for not just 60% of people, but for at least 80% of the people.

    AOTC was a VERY GOOD Movie compared to many movies, BUT compared to LOTR, or Minority Report, the Drama isn't Better and I mean it. The love story hurt the most, it was WAY TOO ineffective.

    One way, he can still direct 3rd one himself. The other way, let somebody else like Steven Speilberg Direct. But, he really NEEDs to be the BEST director he can be if he is going to direct himself again, give us the BEST Star Wars movie ever on Every Level!!!

    I know a lot of actings are Actors duties itself, but why is an Actress like Natalie (who acted good in any other of her movies), or an actor like Hayden (who got nominated for Oscar for Life in a house)can't get the Love story to be loved by audiences is beyond me!

    I think I know the reason too well, they are given Poor directions and poor dialogs to work on!! Like the Symphony London Orchestra LOST without Conductor John Williams, they JUST can't do it themselves!!!

    GL, sorry but I think you are Too soft! Work Natalie, Work Hayden!!! Cuz, I DON'T think you did that in AOTC. You should work talented actors, and NOT waste their talent just by given them useless dialogs, without Emotion, without effort!

    If an Acting by either Natalie or Hayden isn't even Oscar-worthy, DON'T even think about approve it. Redo it, Perfect IT! Make 90% of moviegoers Satisfied, make US FANS PROUD, Make Yourself proud when you win that Oscar one day!!!

    And, I am not saying you Want an Oscar, and I am not saying you could WIN an Oscar anyway even though Episode II was Amazing in All levels, but just getting nominated or getting majority of moviegoers praise (Which AOTC sadly isn't having :() is a Great accomplishment in itself.

    Just look at Lord of Rings, I mean very well acted, directed and it could not win the best picture.

    Tom Cruise praised Steven Speilberg in the movie "Minority Report"...


    When it's time for emotional scenes that need to reach perfect pitch, he's the most amazing conductor.
  7. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    Its a good thing Lucas doesn't care about all these "gripes" some of the fans have.

    And actually the love story was fine and Hayden and Natatlie were fine. Hayden is a damn fine actor IMHO.
    But thats my opinion.

    Anyway leave GL to do his story, I mean why can some of us feel we can tell GL what to do? Its not our place.
  8. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    but just getting nominated [for an Oscar] or getting majority of moviegoers praise (Which AOTC sadly isn't having) is a Great accomplishment in itself.

    Since winning an Oscar is really nothing more than a Hollywood political game, getting nominated for and/or winning one isn't that big of a deal. Lucas has effectively removed himself from the Hollwood system by establishing the largest and most successful independent production company ever, and as such, he's not going to get an Oscar nod from the "academy" no matter how good his movies are.

    As for positive fan reaction, Attack Of The Clones has gotten great reactions from the fans (I'm talking outside of the small minority represented on these forums, of course).

    I'd wager that if Episode III is received as "poorly" as Attack Of The Clones then Lucas will be a very happy man indeed.

    And can we please get off the "Lucas can't direct actors" band wagon? I thought Hayden Christianson had laid that one to rest once and for all. When it came time for the most important scene in Episode II, Anakin's confession, Lucas and Hayden discussed the best way to approach the scene. Lucas didn't want Anakin to show emotion until the very end while Hayden wanted to be very emotional throughout. In the end they compromised with Anakin showing little emotion at the start but then slowly building up. Together, they orchstrated one of the most powerful scenes in the entire saga. And people say Lucas can't direct!

    As for using Minority Report as an example of Spielberg's skill, heh, bad move. That film was devoid of emotion, drama, and conflict. It was pretty to look at, sure, and the acting was acceptable for the most part, but the poor character developement, the intriguing premise that went little further than an intriguing premise, and Spielberg's apparent indecision on whether he wanted the film to be fun or serious really kept Minority Report from being anything but light entertainment. Certainly not Spielberg's finest hour.
  9. JediMaster22 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 1999
    star 8
    >As for positive fan reaction, Attack Of The Clones has gotten great reactions from the fans (I'm talking outside of the small minority represented on these forums, of course). <

    It has NOT really gotten greatest reactions from the General Audiences, though!
  10. JediMaster22 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 1999
    star 8
    >The love story hurt the most, it was WAY TOO ineffective. <

    One of the reasons I think the Love story was Ineffective was because some Well-flirted scenes were deleted, and left with non-sense flirting.

    This is what was still in the movie -

    I don?t like sand. It?s coarse
    and rough and irritating, and it
    gets everywhere. Not like here.
    Here everything?s soft... and
    smooth...





    As you can see, they only talk about weird stuff, about politics. NOT about Life, love!
    That's what's missing. And, this is what was deleted from the movie, that too is considered part of the whole love story and would helped build the Love story, I think -

    SOLA
    Well, this is exciting! Do you
    know, Anakin, you're the first
    boyfriend my sister's ever brought
    home?

    PADME
    (rolls her eyes)
    Sola!! He isn't my boyfriend!
    He's a Jedi assigned by the Senate
    to protect me.

    JOVAL
    A bodyguard?! Oh, Padme! They
    didn't tell us it was that serious!

    PADME
    It's not, Mom, I promise.
    (glances at Jobal)
    Anyway, Anakin's a friend. I've
    known him for years. Remember
    that little boy who was with the
    Jedi during the blockade crisis?

    They nod.

    PADME
    (continuing)
    He grew up.

    JOBAL
    Honey, when are you going to
    settle down? Haven't you had
    enough of that life? I certainly
    have!



    ANAKIN
    (continuing)
    You still live at home.

    PADME
    I move around so much, I've never
    had a place of my own. Official
    residences have no warmth. I feel
    good here. I feel at home.

    ANAKIN
    I never had a real home. Home was
    always where my Mom was.

    ANAKIN picks up a framed hologram.

    ANAKIN
    (continuing)
    Is this you?

    The hologram shows Padme at age seven or eight surrounded by forty or fifty little green creatures. She is holding one in her arms. They are all smiling hugely.

    PADME
    That was when I went with the
    Relief Group to Shadda-Bi-Boran.
    Their sun was imploding, and the
    planet was dying. I was helping
    to relocate the children. See
    that little one I'm holding? His
    name was N'a-kee-tula, which means
    sweethear. He was so full of
    life,. All those kids were. I did
    everything I could to save him,
    but he died... they all did. They
    were never able to adapt... to
    live off their native planet.

    ANAKIN picks up another hologram. It shows PADME at age ten or eleven. She is wearing official robes and standing between two robed legislators. Her expression is severe.

    PADME
    (continuing)
    My first day as an Apprentice
    Legislator. Notice the difference?


    ...


    And in the script, DID this happen AFTER the Fireplace scene?

    PADMÉ
    I don't know...

    ANAKIN
    Sure you do... you just don't want
    to tell me.

    PADMÉ
    Are you going to use one of your
    Jedi mind tricks on me?

    ANAKIN
    They only work on the weak-minded.
    You are anything but weak-minded.

    PADMÉ
    All right... his name was Palo.
    I was twelve. We were both in the
    Legislative Youth Program. He was
    a few years older then I... very
    cute... dark curly hair... dreamy
    eyes.

    ANAKIN
    All right, I get the picture...
    whatever happened to him?

    PADMÉ
    I went on to become a Queen. He
    went on to become an artist.

    ANAKIN
    Maybe he was the smart one.

    PADME
    You really don't like politicians,
    do you?

    ANAKIN
    I like two or three, but I'm not
    really sure about one of them.
    (smiling)
    I don't think the system works.

    PADME
    How would you have it work?

    ANAKIN
    We need a system where the
    politicians sit down and discuss
    the problems, agree what's in the
    best interests of all the people,
    and then do it.

    PADME
    That is exactly what we do. The
    trouble is that people don't
    wlways agree. In fac
  11. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    It has NOT really gotten greatest reactions from the General Audiences, though!

    $300 million+ in box office receipts says you're wrong.
  12. JediMaster22 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 1999
    star 8
    >$300 million+ in box office receipts says you're wrong.<

    If you think Box Office numbers translates to audience satisfaction, then you are wrong.

    Hype will get you great numbers, a movie's reputation based on it name will get you great numbers.

    I am not arguing whether I thought AOTC was good or bad with you, of course I loved it, but that doesn't matter when a lot of OTHER audiences felt the movie was weak!
  13. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    AOTC has gotten positive reaction from people, here's my proof:

    1. go to Amazon.com and see how many stars people have given AOTC (look up movie showtimes)

    2. Cinemascore (an audience reaction site) gave AOTC an A-

    3. The poll at TF.N had between 80-90% of fans giving AOTC 4 or 5 out of 5 stars.

    I've posted my proof theat people do in fact like AOTC-- the overwhelming majority, in fact. So now I challenge you to post proof that the opposite is true.
  14. JediMaster22 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 1999
    star 8
    Well, according to IMDB readers

    Lord Of The Rings: FOTR - 8.9/10
    Minority Report - 8.3/10
    Signs - 8.2/10
    Attack of The Clones - 7.7/10

    BTW, I like AOTC BETTER than Spider-Man all the WAY!!! I didn't like Spider-Man much (Screw it!! :p)
  15. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    7.7/10 is NOT a bad rating. It is furthur proof that the majority of people liked AOTC.
  16. Crazy_Vasey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2001
    star 4
    At college I didn't hear anyone say they didn't like AOTC. Not to say that it didn't have some truly cringeworthy moments but it wasn't as terrible as some say.
  17. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    Quit overanalyzing like Trekkies and just enjoy the movie!
  18. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Go-Mer (before): "You ungrateful, spoiled, selfish, and thoughtlessly dismissive examples of bad manners."

    Hawk: "Just a reminder that you don't actually KNOW these people. Stop pretending you are a Psychologist. You are a VIDEO GAME CONSULTANT. Repeat that to yourself a few times."
    />
    Go-Mer (before): "1) Lucas owes you NOTHING. He earned the money you gave him by making the classic trilogy and related merchandise. You weren't buying stock with Lucasfilm. You purchased a film/toy/book, and you got a film/toy/book. END OF TRANSACTION."

    Hawk: "WRONG! Lucas owes us quality too. You pay money for a GOOD film. It isn't JUST a film. If the customers walk out disatisfied with a meal, they are entitled to discuss why they didn't enjoy it."
    />
    Hawk: "Me: Yuck my Steak is raw Go-Mer: You paid for steak. You got steak."
    />
    Hawk: "Once again your logic is not actually logic at all is it?"
    />
Go-Mer (before): "2) Lucas included humor in TPM that only people with fully armed and operational senses of humor found funny. Just because you happen to be crotchety, and less easily amused as other people doesn't mean Jar-Jar stepping in poop or getting farted on isn't funny to those of us who are."

Hawk: "Some people also find burning cats funny. I am glad that I do not have an operational sense of humour in those instances."
/>
Hawk: "Just because yours is fully armed and operational during TPM, doesn't mean that it is genuine humour. Just remember my little example if you can."
/>
Go-Mer (before): "Some of you guys really make me embarrassed to call myself a Star Wars fan, and with "fans" like you, we would deserve it if Lucas just stopped right where he was at without putting out Episode III and told us all to go to hell."

Hawk: "You are embarassed? I'd sooner take any grumpy fan home to meet my family over one that carries the Lucas bible in his top pocket at all times. Lucas would be embarassed to read your blind devotion."
/>
Go-Mer (before): "At least I know after the time spent here that there was nothing Lucas could have done to meet your "ransom" list of demands for the prequels."

Hawk: "And nothing he could do to displease you. If poop gags in SW films don't make you cringe then there is little he COULD do to offend you.
/>Go-Mer (before): "The irony is you claim to be some kind of harbingers of "quality", while you are blind to the/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/>
  • I_WAS_JUST_BANNED Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2002
    star 1
    That's because we all love the Classic Trilogy more than you. We never fell asleep during the Dagobah bits nor did we coach ourselves to enjoy the original SW like yourself.

    Who exactly is WE? Do not lump me or other people into your skewed perception. I was there in the theater first run for ALL of the OT. I didn't fall asleep during Dagobah. I needed no coaching. I also didn't need to take the large hair across my butt off when I went to see TPM and AOTC. I had fun every time. I left the microscope and neurosis of a troubled childhood at home. did you?

    It's ok, you are still learning but you will never have that experience of spontaneous joy that we had. You need to use a lot of reasoning to experience this emotion. I pity you.

    Sounds an awful lot like you need to use WAY too much reasoning to do anything without exaggerating it. Coincidentally, I don't recall any "spontaneous joy". I remember being a kid and I saw the coolest movie ever, and asked for the toys for Christmas and birthdays and spoke like Yoda (much to my parents dismay) for a good 6 months. None of it was "spontaneous". It's not like I woke up one day months after seeing ANH and started to run around and clap for joy for no apparent reason.

    I was a kid, I had no idea what an emotion was, nor did I recognize or care about them. I liked the movie because it had spaceships and aliens and lightsabers and laserguns, not joy. I think you need to end your own self-pity party before you begin to hate everything new that comes along.

  • DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    "DarthHomer, of course I don't go into a film called Attack of the clones expecting to see a film about salesmen and widowers bent on avenging their wives murder. My point was that I don't mind if I don't enjoy a film because I have certain standards, because it means I get to enjoy films even more when they do meet those standards.
    ANH, TESB and (to a lesser extent) ROTJ met those standards.
    I'm not sure how you could so completely miss the point of my post. It was kind of obvious."


    Oh, I understood your point fine, JenX. I'm not that dense, honest :)
    But you have to admit there was at least a hint of cultural superiority implied in your post. You know the "I can enjoy films on an intellectual level, not like you lowbrow prequel lovers" type of argument. A flaw more and more common in bashers these days :(
  • Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    WHY CAN'T GL just Input the ideas for the story, write it, and let some GOOD writers to finish the screenplay (that screenwriter is famous for winning Oscars,etc) then let his good friend Steven Speilberg (Who can Direct greatest) to Direct the third movie???

    WHY???!!! It's his baby I know, but don't he see a lot of fans aren't happy with his abilities to direct actors???


    Your evidence of this, besides the nonstop whining, complaining and moaning of a few fanboys on this forum?

    I RESPECT GL,

    No you don't.

    just like I respect anyone else at work, etc. However, he NEEDS to take constructive critism like these to HEART,

    He does take constructive criticism to heart, and who are you to say what he needs?

    and find a way to redeem his baby for not just 60% of people, but for at least 80% of the people.

    I would imagine that 60 - 80% of the people don't think it needs to be "redeemed."

    AOTC was a VERY GOOD Movie compared to many movies, BUT compared to LOTR, or Minority Report, the Drama isn't Better and I mean it.

    It was much superior to the plodding LOTR. I haven't seen Minority Report.

    One way, he can still direct 3rd one himself. The other way, let somebody else like Steven Speilberg Direct.

    NO. The last thing I want is Mr. Cutesy Sentiment/Play it Safe/Look How Deep and Oscar Worthy I Am to direct the last SW movie.

    give us the BEST Star Wars movie ever on Every Level!!!

    And if he did, would it satisfy you? I doubt it.

    I know a lot of actings are Actors duties itself, but why is an Actress like Natalie (who acted good in any other of her movies),

    I presume you meant to say she acted well. In any case, she seems to me to have been pretty wooden in most of her other movies.

    or an actor like Hayden (who got nominated for Oscar for Life in a house)

    He was nominated for a Golden Globe for "Life as a House."

    can't get the Love story to be loved by audiences is beyond me!

    Your proof that it wasn't loved by audiences?

    If an Acting by either Natalie or Hayden isn't even Oscar-worthy, DON'T even think about approve it. Redo it, Perfect IT! Make 90% of moviegoers Satisfied, make US FANS PROUD, Make Yourself proud when you win that Oscar one day!!!

    Lucas isn't aiming for Oscars. I know it shocks some people, but Oscars aren't the end-all, be-all of everything. Especially considering how low the standards are today and how easily they can be bought.
  • Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    SWfan2002, you posted three different sources. JediMaster22 posted exactly one.
  • captpellaeon Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    "That film was devoid of emotion, drama, and conflict. It was pretty to look at, sure, and the acting was acceptable for the most part, but the poor character developement, the intriguing premise that went little further than an intriguing premise, and Spielberg's apparent indecision on whether he wanted the film to be fun or serious really kept Minority Report from being anything but light entertainment. Certainly not Spielberg's finest hour."

    Hey Durwood...back off, man. Minority Report was great! Definitely one of Spielberg's finest movies. You know why? Because he balanced the story with entertainment. Obviously, such matters of filmmaking are not something you would seem to care about, however, I'll play to your stupidity and simply say "The movie is really good because its fun to watch." Isn't that what movies are? No one watches a movie because they expect to expand their mind or enlighten themselves. No one watches a movie to Discover Themselves. Its entertainment, and Minority Report is entertainment at its finest.

    Spielberg is, no question, the best director in history.
  • SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    Spielberg is, no question, the best director in history.

    No question about it in YOUR mind.
  • JediMaster22 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 1999
    star 8
    >At college I didn't hear anyone say they didn't like AOTC. Not to say that it didn't have some truly cringeworthy moments but it wasn't as terrible as some say. <

    ?[face_plain]

    I never Said AOTC is horrible, I want it Better!
  • Thread Status:
    Not open for further replies.