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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Gettin' rid of that darn "homecam" feeling and picture...

Discussion in 'Fan Films, Fan Audio & SciFi 3D' started by DarthMole666, Jul 19, 2002.

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  1. wixmmm

    wixmmm Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2001
    lol @ daft.

    Cya
    Mike
     
  2. DorkmanScott

    DorkmanScott Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    A 2:1 (more or less) aspect ratio goes a long way, too.

    EDIT: Nerddogs -- tell me about it! I'm still reeling from the actual tutorial on how to make jangling podracer chains that someone found on Google.

    M. Scott
     
  3. elMister

    elMister Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 13, 2002
    I think this topic should go to the fanfilm tutorials
     
  4. BigRedDog

    BigRedDog Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2002
    BTW, I know it's 29.97 not 30. Thirty is just easier to type (and close enough for most people).

    Part of the "home cam" feel is that your cam is video, not film. (This can be helped, but not totally fixed.)

    The other thing is shot composition, editing, and lighting. There are few situations in which a hand held cam is going to produce non-homecam material.

    If you want more info on how to get past the compostion, editing, and lighting issues, I'd be happy to provide it. I guess I wonder which is your issue?
     
  5. Pixelito

    Pixelito Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2002
    the tutorial was a rather common problem people find with using dynamic contraints. its just coincidence that it happened to be pod racers.
     
  6. elMister

    elMister Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 13, 2002
    I have a question and here it goes

    I've got a Sony CCD-TRV21 and i have this button, that can be moved in three positions:

    Steady shot - off - 16:9 wide

    When i move it to 16:9 wide, it should make those black bars, as Antilles01 said, shouldnt it? But no black bars appear, what happens is that the image becomes "thinner" and stretched up. Is that right? ?[face_plain]

    elMister
     
  7. foxbatkllr

    foxbatkllr Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 27, 2001
    elMister, yes. That is how most digital camcorders show it in my experience. My old Hi-8 Camera had a "cinema" mode which put the black bars there for you. However, all the digital ones I've seen just squish the image.
     
  8. PadawanNick

    PadawanNick Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2001
    Basically, it's designed so if you play the tape from the camera, onto a 16:9 TV, you get a properly sized image.

    Have fun.
     
  9. elMister

    elMister Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 13, 2002
    oh, i see, and so if i get it into my computer, will it still be in a good quality if i resize the image to 16:9 ?
     
  10. Kingleonard

    Kingleonard Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2002
    Imagine it this way. Standard 4:3 video uses square pixels. That is to say, each pixel is a square. 16:9 aspect uses rectangular pixels. That is to say, each pixel is longer on top than on the sides. When you see the 16:9 footage in your viewfinder you're seeing vision shot with rectangular pixels but displayed with square pixels. Therefore, the width is squished horizontally (I think that's a tortology) to accomodate. When you view it on your computer it will probably display using square pixels as well, unless you have a program that allows you to display the correct (rectangular) aspect ratio. When you put it back on tape and show it on a TV it will probably display using square pixels, unless your monitor has the ability to accomodate for 16:9. Digital monitors do this, professional monitors are switchable to do this, and even some consumer TV's have the capability.
    Did this help?
     
  11. Trest

    Trest Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jul 18, 2002
    I watched the Screen Savers today...
    Someone said to get the "flim feel" out of your video... render the final movie using PAL instead of NTSC and @ 25 fps instead of 30 or 29.whatever.

    I havent tried it yet... just thought I would pass it along.

     
  12. Trest

    Trest Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jul 18, 2002
    (oh man)
    Mention a tv show and get my reply bumped from the thread.

    Sorry mods.

    I wanted to pass on info that I havent tried yet. (from a tv show I wont mention)

    Change project settings in the settings viewer.

    PAL instead of NTSC
    25 frames instead of 30 or 29.

    My info says this helps to get rid of the video look, but not entirely.

    I am gonna try this with some footage tonight to see the difference.

    Just thought it may be useful to ppl.

     
  13. Trest

    Trest Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jul 18, 2002
    whoa.

    theres my reply.

    OK

    never mind mods.

    (hits self over the head with rubber chicken)
     
  14. darth_kohai

    darth_kohai Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Trest wins the award for first member ever to mod himself...

    :p

    I've been reading about 3:2 pulldown used to put 24fps film onto NTSC video at (about) 30fps.

    You can go bakward, too, if you have interlaced footage. Create your frames using the following fields:

    1,4,6,9,11,14,16,19,21,24,26,29,31,34,36,39,41,44,46,49,51,54,56,59

    Or, use 30fps frame mode. Close enough?
     
  15. Lord_Rive

    Lord_Rive TFN Fan Films Staff star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    This option is definitely for the...economically unchallenged ( :) )...but you should check out the Magic Bullet from the folks at The Orphanage. I've played around with the plug-in a little bit up at dvGarage and it is really pretty darn cool.
     
  16. MasterZap

    MasterZap Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2002
    That is how most digital camcorders show it in my experience. My old Hi-8 Camera had a "cinema" mode which put the black bars there for you. However, all the digital ones I've seen just squish the image.


    It doesn't "just" squish it. It's the Hi-8 cameras that "just" put in black bars.

    What the digital cameras does is what is called "anamorphic" widescreen...

    Think of it this way: "adding black bars" just throws away information. You waste x lines up top and below with no useful data in it. Whereas in anamorphic mode, you *use* those x lines to show parts of the image. But the "thin slice" that "would" have been "between" the black bars is "stretched" to fill the entire image, thus your cameras resolution is utilized to the fullest!! And if shown on a widescreen TV, it looks correct.


    However, "cropping it in post" has one DISTINCT advantage: YOU CAN FIX YOUR FRAMING LATER!! if you aimed a little low, or a little high, you can fix that later by moving the footage up, or down, a little. I did that a LOT in kid wars.

    /Z
     
  17. Tri-Som_Gare

    Tri-Som_Gare Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 22, 2000
    Hmm...Magic Bullet has no PC version. Bummer, looks pretty cool. Anyone ever use Cinelook?
     
  18. Oreckel

    Oreckel Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 18, 2002
    One bigger thing about film is how it handles light and color. Look at the following image:

    http://www.digieffects.com/frames/cinelook/EKColor500T5298.35mm.jpg

    Note how the "Film" look looks much richer in color. Cinelook is a program for After Effects that will give you this look, and for Premiere there is a plug-in called BigFX - it does a great job but costs $500.

    I've noticed I can achieve the same effect as BigFX by exporting filmstrips in Premiere, then (in Photoshop) messing around with the "Levels" slider, applying a "sharpen" filter, and re-inserting into Premiere.
     
  19. foxbatkllr

    foxbatkllr Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 27, 2001
    It doesn't "just" squish it. It's the Hi-8 cameras that "just" put in black bars.

    What the digital cameras does is what is called "anamorphic" widescreen...

    Think of it this way: "adding black bars" just throws away information. You waste x lines up top and below with no useful data in it. Whereas in anamorphic mode, you *use* those x lines to show parts of the image. But the "thin slice" that "would" have been "between" the black bars is "stretched" to fill the entire image, thus your cameras resolution is utilized to the fullest!! And if shown on a widescreen TV, it looks correct.


    Well DUH. No need to explain to me how it works. If you looked at what I was replying to, you'd understand what I was talking about. If you view a movie shot 16:9 on a digital camera, the image will appear squished on a 4:3 screen including the viewfinder. The guy was asking if his camera could put the black bars there for him so it didn't appear squished on 4:3. You have to put those "black bars" on in post production if you want the footage to keep its aspect ratio on a 4:3 TV.
     
  20. masterpadawan

    masterpadawan Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 5, 2002
    Film like version of Alternate Lightsaber Duel!
    I don't know if Ryan W. would like me using his fanfilm or not, but it was the only short video I had on my computer to encode fast. I used the first tutorial listed in this thread. About duplciating the video track etc... So I followed that EXCEPT that I couldn't use the strobe filter and I couldn't deinterlace!! Which annoyed me! It could have been cause I was using Adobe AE instead of Premiere, which is definitley better for editing video plus it has some of AE's Video effects. But anyway the Frame rate was brought down from 29.97 to 24 for the film frame rate, and I used the opacity settings and put them down to 50% instead of 100%. The movie definitley shows improvement in the overall darkness which is shown more on Film. Also since I could not do the deinterlacing on both video files, fluid motion could be achieved but it look slightly more Film like thanks and thanks ONLY to the Frame Rate change. So I hope you notice a good difference in this Psuedo Film version of Alternate Lightsaber Duel compared to Th original version. (Not that the Original is bad in an way, I'm just trying to test how the Film improvements work)

    Oh yeah, and for those concerned with the Specs of the Actual Video File. Here they are.

    Format: Quicktime MOV
    Codec: Apple MPEG-4 Video Codec
    Audio Codec: IMA 4:1
    Aspect Ratio and Resolution: 16:9, 320x180
    File Size: About 18MB (Larger than original file)
     
  21. MasterZap

    MasterZap Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Well DUH. No need to explain to me how it works. If you looked at what I was replying to, you'd understand what I was talking about


    I was really just clarifying what you said ;)

    My only beef was w. the use of the word "just" which to me felt as if something "inferior" was going on, while the reality is the reverse. I read it like "I though she was tall but she was just wearing platform shoes", geddit :D

    /Z
     
  22. masterpadawan

    masterpadawan Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 5, 2002
    Sorry for anyone who couldn't download the video... It's being served off my computers WWW address, so once I turn off the computer the whole service goes off. =( Sorry!
     
  23. foxbatkllr

    foxbatkllr Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 27, 2001
    I was really just clarifying what you said

    My only beef was w. the use of the word "just" which to me felt as if something "inferior" was going on, while the reality is the reverse. I read it like "I though she was tall but she was just wearing platform shoes", geddit


    I tend to use the word "just" rather liberally. 8-}
     
  24. Ryan_W

    Ryan_W VIP star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Aww... I can't dowload it now.
    I want to see it...
     
  25. Antilles01

    Antilles01 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2001
    My Sony TRV-320 (in widescreen mode) stretches it in the viewfinder, but adds black bars in the lcd screen, so its normal.
     
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