Girls, When you see Anakin turn to Vader...

I don't think you're really supposed to like Anakin so much (except maybe when he's a kid, and then Jake Lloyd ruined that), but he's just a dynamic character, with good qualities and bad.

He was definitly not stable. I'm not sure he actually loved Padme, but more likely, as stinrab said, he was obsessed with her. Their relationship was anything but normal, and Anakin was actually a rather creepy guy, which I think Padme will come to realize in Ep 3.

 

If any of this were actually the case, then SW would be a pretty weak example of storytelling. It would have no emotional resonance whatsoever.

Anakin loves Padme. Padme loves Anakin. If all Anakin was was some crazy stalker then why in the hell are we supposed to care about them? Their secret wedding? Their children? That's the entire point of making AOTC a love story... not to see how "creepy" Anakin is, but to see that he was once a good, loving person. Of course, we see glimpses to the dark side, this IS a tragedy.

As for the fireplace scene, blaming Anakin for the lines is sort of like shooting the messenger. The awkwardness is understandable for someone who's been told his whole life not give in to his feelings and who has never been in love. But it's GL who's ultimately responsible for the dialog. Padme is squirmy because she's fighting her own feelings, obviously that's why she says "regardless of how we feel about each other." The whole reason for her letting the Tusken thing slide is that she's in love with him. She is not the type of woman to be bullied around or coerced into something, so don't tell me Anakin scared her into loving him.

Yes, Anakin murdered the Tuskens. We are supposed to be shocked and appalled by this. But we're also supposed to see his remorse and guilt afterwards. It's all part of his characters journey as a tragic hero. We he is- and don't even get me started on it, I have a whole long thread about it in the 3SA. I don't consider him a cold blooded murderer after that, but a seriously flawed individual who needs help fast... but he'll never get it and things just get worse.

And I was never talking about his run as Vader. By then he is really a true villain. You're not supposed to see him as a good person, you've grown to hate him. But you are supposed to understand where that came from, why you hate him. It's not just because helped purge the Jedi and enslaved the Galaxy. It's because once he was a good person and seemed to have it all, but it wasn't enough and everyone he ever had contact with suffered as a result. The entire point of the PT is to see how good people can go bad given the right circumstances.... not how bad people get worse. That is very weak storytelling. Vader was once a son, friend, hero, husband and father... who through careful manipulation became a monster. But by the end of III we'll wonder if there is any spark of humanity left in him. Knowing that makes his character more tragic. We're supposed to care that he is redeemed in the end.


Quotes (no spoilers). And tell me this, why would everyone say Anakin's fall is "shocking and "sad" if we were never supposed to like him and he was always a bad guy?:

"...if you start with Star Wars, then Vader?s just the villain, and that?s it. But you don?t realize that he?s a human being, that he?s got problems you don?t realize that he could have been saved, that he was tricked and can be resurrected." - GL

Rick felt saddened, shocked, angry and betrayed after reading the story of Anakin's downfall. - RM

The major focus is the breakdown in friendship between Obi-Wan and Anakin. - SW Insider

Knowing what happens in Ep3 makes Paul see the classic trilogy in a new light. He specifically mentioned how he has a new understanding of the depth of friendship between Anakin and Obi-Wan. He now gets a lump in his throat when Vader strikes down Kenobi in Ep4. -Paul Ens

Anakin's fall is shocking. -Pablo Hidalgo

 

Not only did he murder the men, women and children of a Tusken settlement...

God, I'm sick of this argument.

And the Tuskens did exactly what to Shmi?

Oh, that's right--she went into their camp on her own free will. They were sitting around drinking jawa juice and having a good ol' time when Anakin decided to stop by.

The Tuskens are not Care Bears.

Again, stinrab, to call Anakin a stalker is to insult those of us who have experienced the real thing. To call his behavior "stalking" just because you don't like him is insulting. Staring at someone is not stalking. I wish all my stalker had done was stare. I could have dealt with that.

As far as the "overseeing the destruction of a planet"--he was Vader then, and no, he was not a good person. But he was a good person as Anakin. And he most certainly did love Padme. Who are you to say he didn't? Lucas created him, Lucas said he loved her, therefore he did.

 

Well said Rebelscum

I agree with my fellow Defenders

1.) He's obsessed with Padme. He doesn't love her. He's never said he loves her.He may not have said thewords, but his actions clearly state it All he does is say awfully disturbing lines (see: fireplace scene) and give creepy thin-lipped smiles. See below. His smiles are genuine, NOT CREEPY


2.) He makes Padme uncomfortable. Considerably uncomfortable. She tells him to stop staring at her for that very reason.She tells him that, because she is already feeling attracted to him, and she is taken aback by those feelings. Last time she saw him he was a 10 year old kid. She shifts uncomfortably in her chair in the fireplace scene and clearly is not impressed with Anakin's attitude or what he's saying.Au Contrair.. she is very much interested. She wants to kiss him, and she wants to give in, but she knows it wouldn't work, she is waging an internal debate and finally gets the strength to stand up. It is only when faced with imminent demise that she chooses her heart over her head

 

Try reading the novel to show what she is feeling in this scene--and in the nightmare scene soon after, when she wants to go to him. Hardly indicative of a woman who is being stalked--I wanted to get on the other side of the planet from my stalker.

 

Hold me back, hold me back!

Yes, I will still like him as much. And NO, it is not because of his looks. (Those are just a plus). It's because, like anakin_girl so eloquently put it, he's not perfect. He's overly emotional, he's cocky, he's impulsive and he makes mistakes. So I guess we're not supposed to like Anakin because *gasp* he's human? He's not pure as the driven snow, and that's what makes him so compelling. He's a gray area. In him, you see an enormous propensity for goodness and selflessness, yet a predisposition for darkness.

Oh, the Tusken thing. I mean seriously, if it was your mother they kidnapped, tortured, starved and beat, I suppose you'd just pat them on the back and say "Well, that's OK." I'm not thinking so. That's not to say that what he did was right, but it's certainly understandable, and he does display remorse afterward.

Tears. Suffering. The pain on his face is heartwrenching. "I'm a Jedi. I know I'm better than this." Yeah, that's some cold blooded stuff. Cold blooded murder is done without motive, without intent, and without remorse. Not when your mother dies in your arms and you want to exact revenge on the people who did it to her.

And the stalker thing--Please. Yes, maybe his fascination with Padmé was a bit odd, but look at it this way. Anakin really never had anyone but his mother. He was taken away from her, and Padmé, in essence, took her place. Observe the scene on the starship when she goes to comfort him in TPM after he's left Tatooine. You can see her mothering instinct toward him, and that draws him to her even more than he already was. He had a crush on her when he first saw her, and he nursed that crush over the years because it was probably the one thing that helped him from feeling terribly lonely. In fact, in the deleted Naboo Arrival scene in AotC, he tells Padmé:

"When I first started my training I was very homesick and very lonely. But I'd always feel better when I thought about the palace."

That's really his way of saying he'd always feel better when he thought about her.

So he thought about her--I guess that makes him a stalker, huh? Not really. We don't know how he felt about her all those years, but when he saw her again was when he fell in love. And keep in mind, he was a 20 year old kid who had spent half of his life in the company of Obi-Wan and didn't really get to "get out" much in terms of female companionship. So if he seemed a little eager, all I can say is, a horny 20 year old guy--who'd have thought?

But his actions clearly demonstrate his feelings for her are genuine. He spills his guts in the fireplace scene; who cares if he doesn't explicitly say "I love you."

Enough about that. I do believe that the character of Anakin is, at heart, a good person who makes stupid choices. And I seriously doubt that seeing the culmination of WHY he makes the WORST choice of his life is going to make me dislike him.

 

If there's any doubt that Anakin genuinely loves Padmé, refer to the scene where she goes tumbling out of the gunship. Anakin is willing to abandon pursuit of Count Dooku, defy his Master (not to mention give away those forbidden feelings), and risk expulsion from the Jedi Order to rescue her. In short, he's willing to throw it all away for her. Stalkers and creepy obsessive types only expect their victims to sacrifice everything for them.

I find Anakin compelling because he is, IMO, the most complex character in the entire saga. The fact he had a heart and a soul and lost them both for a long time makes him (and Vader for that matter) a more interesting hero/villain than the Hannibal Lechters or Norman Bateses.

--MissPadme

 

All he does is say awfully disturbing lines (see: fireplace scene) and give creepy thin-lipped smiles.

I think Ani's weird lines are more because he is immature and hasn't really come on to a girl before (or simply bad scriptwriting).

He makes Padme uncomfortable. Considerably uncomfortable. She tells him to stop staring at her for that very reason.

There's really nothing wrong with staring at her. His weird smile afterwards was what bugged me. I mean, she seemed angry and uncomfortable, so if I made someone I care for feel that way, then I'd feel bad myself. I wouldn't call this stalker behavior though.

She shifts uncomfortably in her chair in the fireplace scene

I wasn't sure what she was doing there in the first place with someone who makes her feel uncomfortable. My own guess so far is that she liked the kiss and didn't want to be lonely.

If any of this were actually the case, then SW would be a pretty weak example of storytelling

Some of us think that some parts are weak, though.

If all Anakin was was some crazy stalker then why in the hell are we supposed to care about them?

I don't think Anakin was a stalker, but I don't think Lucas did good enough storytelling to make us care about him, if that was his intention.

The whole reason for her letting the Tusken thing slide is that she's in love with him

Nah, I think she's acting the "enabler" type. Anyone who lets a person's destructive behavior slide is enabling that sort of thing. From that point of view, I'm not surprised that Anakin later continues it.

I don't consider him a cold blooded murderer after that, but a seriously flawed individual who needs help fast..

I think he's both, actually. Unfortunately he won't get it because he's getting some degree of support and affection, but too much enabling, from Amidala on one side, and no help or support from the Jedi Council on the other side. In my opinion their forbidding marriage is not a good thing, nor is their teaching that anger and hate should not be felt. They should teach how to deal with anger, which is a very normal emotion. Not how to just not feel it. I think this is another reason why Anakin turns to the dark side.

Lucas created him, Lucas said he loved her, therefore he did.

Lucas is one of the last people I'd look to for this kind of information. I would say that he did a bad job of this particular storyline. Lucas could have a character kill a baby in cold blood and say that there's nothing wrong with that, and I wouldn't believe him there either.

And tell me this, why would everyone say Anakin's fall is "shocking and "sad" if we were never supposed to like him and he was always a bad guy?:

Because they think differently from us, maybe? I don't know. I don't really look to what other people say in order to decide what I should think.

And the Tuskens did exactly what to Shmi?

Oh, that's right--she went into their camp on her own free will. They were sitting around drinking jawa juice and having a good ol' time when Anakin decided to stop by.

The Tuskens are not Care Bears.

That makes the particular Tuskens who hurt Shmi as well as their wives, their children and infants fit for killing?
A lot of us have family members and relatives who are huge criminals. Maybe my uncle tortured and killed a woman. Does that give the woman's son the right to kill me, my mother and father, my husband, and my infant children? Then my brother might be angry at that woman's son for killing his beloved sister, that'll give him the right to kill that man. Then the woman's sister will be angry at my brother for killing her nephew. Etc, etc. This is why revenge is stupid, and Anakin had no right to slaugher a group of Tuskens, no matter how un-Care Bear like they are.
Especially children.

So I think that this makes Anakin some other type of criminal and have various other problems, but not a stalker.

 

It certainly doesn't make him someone who "murders innocents in cold blood". I have seen the Tuskens portrayed as people who were "just defending their territory" when they attacked Shmi--as if that were an excuse for kidnapping an innocent woman and torturing her to death.

I don't think Anakin should have killed the kids. And he said himself that he shouldn't have done it. As far as the women--why didn't any of them untie Shmi? Using the analogy of your uncle--would you actually watch him torture and kill someone without trying to help the person escape? Shmi was in the Tuskens' tent for a month and no one bothered to untie her. Don't tell me the Tusken women weren't capable of doing that.

 

Staring at someone is not stalking.

What he was doing wasn't strictly stalking, but it was unwanted advances. Just my personal opinion

he was Vader then, and no, he was not a good person. But he was a good person as Anakin.

Good person = mass murderer?? Killer of women and children??

Lucas created him, Lucas said he loved her, therefore he did.

He also said Greedo shot first

And could you point me to where Lucas actually said that. I'm just curious

I don't think Anakin should have killed the kids. And he said himself that he shouldn't have done it.

Where did he say that?

"And not just the men, but the women and the children too. They're animals and I slaughtered them like animals. I HATE THEM"

Nope, he was more upset over the fact that he got upset about it.

As far as the women--why didn't any of them untie Shmi?

So they deserved to die because of that? There's no such thing as a guilty bystander

 

stinrab: Why is it that you think Anakin is the only guilty party here? Why don't you think the Tuskens are guilty?

Where did he say that?

Padme: "To be angry is to be human."
Anakin: "I'm a Jedi, I know I'm better than this."

Besides--what would you do if Shmi were your mother? Pat the Tuskens on the back and say "It's alright, I understand that it was just a sacred ritual for you."

If they had done that to my mother and I had a lightsaber, I would have dismembered them before I killed them.

And could you point me to where Lucas actually said that. I'm just curious.

He said that AOTC was meant to be a classic tale of courtly love. He also said that it would show the beginning of the Clone Wars in the background of a love story...a love story, not a stalker story. When's the last time anyone called "Fatal Attraction" a love story?

Good person = mass murderer?? Killer of women and children??

Avenger of his mother. Everyone who likes to condemn Anakin for killing the "poor little innocent Tuskens" seems to forget what those cuddly little creatures did to Shmi.

What he was doing wasn't strictly stalking, but it was unwanted advances.

And he backed off when she told him to--definitely not the sign of a stalker. Making unwanted advances is not a crime unless you do it after the person has told you to stop.

 

Good person = mass murderer?? Killer of women and children??

You make it sound like he's Ted Bundy or Hitler or something. He isn't- yet.

And there are any number of quotes where George says it is a love story. I don't think he's keeping some kind of deep dark secret that Anakin doesn't *really* love her. Come on.

"However, in watching the movie, I found that the love story worked fine without that element of pressure. The chemistry was there, and it was enough for her to fall in love with him."

"The challenge was I wanted to tell the love story in a style that was extremely old-fashioned, and frankly, I didn't know if I was going to be able to pull it off. In many ways, this was much more like a movie from the 1930s than any of the others had been, with a slightly over-the-top poetic style-and they just don't do that in movies anymore. I was very happy with the way it turned out in the script and in the performances, but I knew people might not buy it."

Seriously, I could just go on.


And for good measure... from the AOTC screenplay version that I have:

ANAKIN: Not just the men, but the women and the children
too. They're like animals, and I slaughtered them like
animals... I hate them!

There is silence for a moment, then ANAKIN breaks down,
sobbing. PADMÉ takes him into her arms.

ANAKIN: Why do I hate them? I didn't... I couldn't... I couldn't control myself. I... I don't want to hate them... But I just can't forgive them.

PADMÉ: To be angry is to be human.

ANAKIN: To control your anger is to be a Jedi.

PADMÉ: Ssshhh... you're human.

ANAKIN: No, I'm a Jedi. I know I'm better than this. I'm sorry, I'm so sorry!

PADMÉ: You're like everyone else...

PADMÉ rocks him, and ANAKIN weeps.


Some of that got cut, granted. But he seems pretty broken up about the whole thing... "I'm so sorry"... There is something very similiar in the novelization.


I'll say it again, if Anakin was nothing but a murderer right off the bat, then where is his character arc? That would make him Palpatine. But he's NOT Palpatine, hence showing us the innocent, loving, and tragically flawed person he used to be. How boring would the main character of the Saga, the tragic hero, be if he was so one dimensional?

 

How is it sexist to say that girls like Anakin because of his good looks...? It sounds completly normal and natural to me.

 

You assume that we are all shallow, superficial airheads.

You also assume that no guy likes Anakin. I do know some male Anakin fans.

Read my previous posts to see why I like Anakin.

 

First of all I know of several male fans who like Anakin. Second of all, while looking like Hayden is definately a plus, it is not my main reason for likeing Anakin. I would love the character even if he wasn't good looking. I have seen good looking characters in bad stories, and I didn't feel the same way at all.

Second of all, even he knows killing the Tuskens wasn't right, but given the situation his actions were quite understandable, if not excusable. If you had just found some one you hold near and dear tortured to death, and they had been haunting your thoughts for weeks, and had you been there just a little bit sooner you could have saved them, I think you to would be less than forgiving. It doesn't excuse it, but it does explain it.

As for no love PUHLEAAZE!! Did you see the hug before he left, the way she comforted him when he confessed, the looks in the meadow, the way he was ready to throw it all away to save her when she fell out of the ship, thier faces at the wedding.. How can anyone say the don't love each other and have seen the movie.

 

Again, stinrab, to call Anakin a stalker is to insult those of us who have experienced the real thing.

If saying that Anakin is a stalker is an insult to someone who is stalked, then isn't saying that Anakin's killing of children is a righteous act of vengence an insult to people who have experienced the horrors of revenge?

It certainly doesn't make him someone who "murders innocents in cold blood".

They were children. Probably asleep, too, what with the men (apparently) sitting outside guarding the tents. Going up to them and killing every last one is quite cold blooded to me. Of course, maybe this would have been more effective if we got a good look at every child's face right before he and she died.

As far as the women--why didn't any of them untie Shmi? Using the analogy of your uncle--would you actually watch him torture and kill someone without trying to help the person escape?

I don't know whether the women actually "watched" any of this or knew what was going on, or whether they didn't dare go near Shmi so that they or their children don't get hurt by other Tuskens for this, or they can simply have been so petrified that they didn't go... who really knows what was going on in their minds? I don't, I don't claim to. So far, I know that Anakin killed every person, and I think that this makes him as sick and uncivilized as Tuskens.

Don't tell me the Tusken women weren't capable of doing that.

Unfortunately, this is a possibility. They could easily have been protecting themselves or their children... there's another possible reason: maybe some humans, possibly any of Lars's relatives, killed some Tuskens. If this is the case and it's okay to kill family members of people who killed your own family members, then the Tuskens have every right to capture and kill Shmi, no matter how innocent she was. The Tusken children were innocent, too.
You see why I have such a problem with revenge?
In any case, whether they were capable or not does not justify having any of them executed, much less all of them.

stinrab: Why is it that you think Anakin is the only guilty party here? Why don't you think the Tuskens are guilty?

I do think the Tuskens are guilty, and stinrab probably does too. Doesn't give Anakin the right to sink to their level and take lives.

Besides--what would you do if Shmi were your mother? Pat the Tuskens on the back and say "It's alright, I understand that it was just a sacred ritual for you."

So either we condemn and kill every single Tusken plus the children, or pat them on the back? As if these two extreme actions are the only possibilities. Just because some of us don't agree that the killing was justifiable, doesn't mean that we go to the extreme other end and say that the Tuskens are Care Bears and deserve our praise. To say that we are is simply making a straw man of our real argument, and attacking the straw.

If they had done that to my mother and I had a lightsaber, I would have dismembered them before I killed them.

And if someone dismembered and killed your children because your brothers killed that person's mother? Soothe him and tell him he's just human?
Anyway, we have different opinions about revenge and we're just going to have to live with that.

Avenger of his mother.

What if the Tuskens were avenging someone too, when they took Shmi? Then the Tuskens were doing something that was quite okay. Then Ani did something okay too. In that case, the Tusken who attacked Luke was guiltless as well.

You make it sound like he's Ted Bundy or Hitler or something. He isn't- yet.

Killing some children is a good way to start.

And there are any number of quotes where George says it is a love story.

I don't doubt that Lucas said things to this effect. However, we generally refer to people as "bad directors" and "bad screenwriters" and "bad actors" because we're looking at how effectively they are able to make stories and characters believable. I know that this movie intends to portray

 

So far, I know that Anakin killed every person, and I think that this makes him as sick and uncivilized as Tuskens.

How? Anakin's mother was brutally beaten to death. She died in his arms. That did not happen to the Tuskens. I saw the movie. Anakin was provoked. I also have a copy of the screenplay and the novelization (and the novelization goes into great detail of what the Tuskens did to Shmi. You think the Tuskens are so wonderful? At least Anakin didn't torture them for a month before he killed them).

Another thing about the Tuskens--Cliegg took 29 other farmers with him to rescue Shmi. The Tuskens killed all of them except four, and they cut off Cliegg's leg. Oh yeah, that's right...they were avenging someone when they took Shmi...she wasn't just minding her own business picking mushrooms off her vaporators. *rolls eyes*

The Cliegg and the farmers incident--which also mentions that Anakin found some dead farmers' bodies outside the Tusken camp--proves that in no way had the Larses been attacking Tuskens. They wouldn't have lived long enough to tell about it. The only reason Anakin did is because he had the Force.

Oh yeah, and Anakin "sunk to their level". He kidnapped an innocent Tusken woman, tied her to a pole, raped her and beat her to death over a period of a month until she died from internal hemorrhaging.

And if someone dismembered and killed your children because your brothers killed that person's mother?

My brother is civilized and doesn't torture innocent women to death.

I don't know whether the women actually "watched" any of this or knew what was going on, or whether they didn't dare go near Shmi so that they or their children don't get hurt by other Tuskens for this, or they can simply have been so petrified that they didn't go... who really knows what was going on in their minds?

How can you have such sympathy for the Tusken women who stood by and did nothing while an innocent woman was brutally beaten by their men, and not have sympathy for that woman's son when he chose to rid the area of his mother's murderers?

I also notice a strange pattern of people who side with the Tusken women for not taking action when Shmi was being tortured to death, but at the same time condemn Vader for allowing Tarkin to blow up Alderaan.

 

You make it sound like he's Ted Bundy or Hitler or something. He isn't- yet.

Key word in that sentence: yet.

Atm he is Ted Bundy.

By the end of the next film, he'll be Hitler.

And for good measure... from the AOTC screenplay version that I have..

Not in final film. Not canon.

What we are dealing with here is lust. Anakin met this girl when he was 9 or 10 and developed a crush on her. He then does not see her for 10 years but spends all that time obsessing over her. Then, when she arrives, he's all of a sudden in love with her? Huh? He barely knows her.

The love story was not portrayed well enough for me to believe it. Sorry.

My brother is civilized and doesn't torture innocent women to death.

And if your brother did do that, would that give the victims of his crime the right to murder your entire family and all your friends?

How can you have such sympathy for the Tusken women who stood by and did nothing while an innocent woman was brutally beaten by their men

As I said, there's no such thing as a guilty bystander (at least in my legal system). Did the Tusken women do the right thing here? No. Did they deserve to die for it? No.

and not have sympathy for that woman's son when he chose to rid the area of his mother's murderers?

But that's the thing; he didn't just kill his mother's murderers. He murdered the wives and children of those responsible. And there is no way that can be justified




Otherwise, everything Estelita said

 

Exactly how would you compare Anakin to Ted Bundy, stinrab?

Just saying "he killed" is not enough. I want to see a comparison in motivations.

The love story was not portrayed well enough for me to believe it. Sorry.

What about the story of Tristan and Iseut? The story of Romeo and Juliet? Were those portrayed well enough to make you believe them? That was the style Lucas was going for. He wasn't going for a realistic 21st century love story. He was going for the style of the old courtly love tales.

And there is no way that can be justified

Amazing how I haven't seen any of Anakin's detractors express one ounce of sympathy for Shmi--or when they do, they don't express nearly the sympathy they express for the "poor wittle innocent Care Bear Tusken Bunnies".

Not in final film. Not canon.

I consider the screenplays and the novelizations canon.

And if your brother did do that, would that give the victims of his crime the right to murder your entire family and all your friends?

If my brother tied up an innocent woman and tortured her, and I were nearby, I would untie the woman, get medical attention for her, and tell my brother to stop being such an ass.

I wouldn't stand by and allow it to happen.

People like to call Anakin "psychotic"? The Tuskens were psychotic.

 

Just saying "he killed" is not enough. I want to see a comparison in motivations.

Ted Bundy is a serial killer, yes? I'm not overly familiar with that case (being from a completely different country), but there is this:

Ted Bundy killed innocent women.

Anakin killed innocent women (no such thing as guilty bystanders) and *children*.

As far as motive goes, it's irrelevant in a court of law. Intention is what matters; and Anakin appears to have intended to murder them all. He did not do it in self-defence. There was provocation, but the women and certainly the children played no part in it. What he did is commit mass homicide.

He was going for the style of the old courtly love tales.

I was not convinced by the end of the film. I just could see no reason why the two of them fell in love. Sorry.

Amazing how I haven't seen any of Anakin's detractors express one ounce of sympathy for Shmi--or when they do, they don't express nearly the sympathy they express for the "poor wittle innocent Care Bear Tusken Bunnies".

Pfft, we have sympathy for Shmi, we just don't think her death justifies the murder of children.

An eye for an eye =/= an entire mouth for an eye

People like to call Anakin "psychotic"? The Tuskens were psychotic.

Were the children? Were the women truly "psychotic" simply because they did not rescue Shmi? Did they deserve to die for it? No.

 

I agree with Stinrab. The women and children did not have anything to do with it.

 

Why does everyone focus on the women and the children? What about the men?

 

Why does everyone focus on the women and the children? What about the men?

Because Anakin killed the women and children as well as the men. The fact he killed innocents is kind of important

Are the men guilty? Some of them are, yes. I doubt every single one of them was responsible for what happened to Shmi and others, but that, apparently, did not matter to Anakin so he just wiped them all out.

 

The fact he killed innocents is kind of important

So is the fact that his mother was tortured to death, but people ignore that.

And in the United States, if you stand by and allow a murder to happen when you could have stopped it, you can be charged with aiding and abetting.

I'm not a lawyer but that's the way I understand it.

There certainly is something called a "guilty bystander"--it's called a "sin of omission". The adults in the camp could have stopped Shmi's torture, and didn't.

As far as Anakin wiping out the whole camp--he was supposed to do what exactly--walk up to each Tusken and say "Excuse me, sir--did you kill my mother?"

Of course I'm sure someone will say "He should have been the better person and just left the camp with his mother's body". It's very easy for us to say this from the comfort of our computers while our mothers aren't tied to racks being brutally tortured.

 

What if they didn't know about it?
Someone next door to me could tirture someone and I wouldn't know. So if a human killed a Monkey does the monkey's son have the right to kill every human in that area? No.