GL vs. HC take on how the Tusken Raider confession scene should have been done

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by JediGirl1, Jun 17, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. JediGirl1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 1
    Actually, the magazine was really good. I saw it in Chapters - the cover is what really caught my eye. Hayden on the front (B&W) looking very serious with a caption under that just says Vader. Also includes a fold out part of Darth Vader on the other half. The rest of the article talks about the play that he was doing in London called This is Our Youth (for which he received rave reviews from the London critics apparently). :cool:
  2. JediGirl1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 1
    Something I just realized....my friend bought the May issue of Arena magazine which I just looked at and realized that Harry Knowles (AICN) is contributing editor. On the cover they boast the world's first Star Wars review and that he was the only person outside of GL's closest associates who has seen the film.
  3. MINI_YODA Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2002
    star 2
    PadmeLeiaJaina

    Can you read Japanese? An article on Yahoo Japan talked about Hayden and said the EXACT same thing you said. That Hayden could be the Harrison Ford of the series.
  4. JediJag Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2002
    Sounds like a serious interview JediGirl1, how about some more quotes.

    I am so glad Hayden stood his ground on this scene because I think it will stand the test of time. It is also my favorite part of the movie. Hopefully, we will get to see the end of the scene on the DVD when Anakin is completely a remorseful mess and Padme continues to comfort him. I think it will be even more moving.
    And yet, I am not so sure that it was not edited correctly. The scene works almost perfectly as is and Anakin's emotional remorse might not have sufficiently foreshadowed his pending fall.

    Hey, too bad Hayden did not push for changes in the dialogue or editing of the "love story" :(
  5. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    I too am quite glad that Lucas can compromise with his actors like this. Having read this, I feel that all those critics who say that George is terrible with actors are full of poodoo.

    Lucas isn't known for his flexibility, which caused the infamous outburst from Harrison Ford on the set of ANH. I am also reminded of the scene in TPM where Neeson wanted to put his hand on Shmi's shoulder, but Lucas insisted that it not happen, because Jedi are to be stoic. Supposedly, Qui-Gon was meant to be against the grain? I think it would have been better Liam's way.

    I don't think this single article adequately challenges the issue of Lucas being the dominator of the SW. However, I feel it offers a ray of hope that George Lucas is starting to loosen up a bit and is now listening to some of his cast and criticism and making subsequent alterations (the downplaying of Jar-Jar is one obvious manifestation). Then again, after reading through some of the TPM early drafts, I wonder if George has always been listening, but just listening to the wrong people. Rick McCallum maybe!!!
  6. Kiki-Gonn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2001
    star 6
    Wow, good first thread JG!.
    My first one was something like 'uhhhh, hi'

    I love that scene to death. It works so perfectly that the compromise might have been the best of both worlds.
    Maybe HC's version would have too unrestrained?
    Part of the power (IMO) is the way he holds back 'til the end.

    Directors and actors have disagreed on how scenes should be played in every movie ever made and many great directors are felt to be inflexible by their actors.
  7. Shadowstalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2001
    I have a newfound respect for HC. Now, instead of him being a talentless hack, I see him as a talentless hack with at least some sense of characterization.

    However, it's a shame he didn't spend more time on his acting, instead of worrying about screen direction issues, though. AotC would have been much better for it. A better-acting HC utilizing Lucas' plan as-is would've been so much better than the as-is acting HC, modifying Lucas' plans on the fly.

    Lucas has been and is open to such changes. Harrison Ford couldn't deal with some really, really horrible Lucas lines so he ended up adlibbing them, which definitely worked out for the better.

    The difference, though is that with respect to Star Wars (SFX-intensive acting) Harrison Ford is a good actor, whereas Hayden Christensen is a rather poor one.

    IMO, the Hayden-modified scene worked better than what Lucas originally called for, but it could have worked better still were a good actor used to play the role of Anakin Skywalker.
  8. VladTheImpaler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2000
    star 4
    >>>Lucas isn't known for his flexibility, which caused the infamous outburst from Harrison Ford on the set of ANH.<<<

    What infamous outburst? I hope you don't mean the "you can say this ****, George" line. It seemed to me like he was kidding...and even if not, it's not a comment on George's inflexibility as a director. It was poking fun at George's tendancy to pepper his script with all these weird technological scifi terms.

    >>>I am also reminded of the scene in TPM where Neeson wanted to put his hand on Shmi's shoulder, but Lucas insisted that it not happen, because Jedi are to be stoic. Supposedly, Qui-Gon was meant to be against the grain? I think it would have been better Liam's way.<<<

    Are you kidding? You should watch TPM again...Liam DID put his hand on her shoulder. Lucas didn't like it at first, but eventually caved in. Just like Lucas didn't like the "I know" line in ESB, but eventually decided to leave it in the final cut.

    Because Lucas didn't immediately fall in love with these ideas, everyone bashes him for being an unreasonable "my way or the highway" director...but the fact is, he made the final decision to leave these scenes in. When all is said and done, I have no complaints. I loved how these scenes turned out, especially Hayden's confession scene.
  9. lurk Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2002
    My respect for HC just went up. That is my favourite scene of AOTC, and now I realise that HC is to be entirely thanked for that. If GL hadn't compromised, it would have created more fuel to the critics who call the characters robotic. Hayden was right, hopefully he'll have even a greater impact in III.
  10. Bresson Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 3
    At some point, a director has to be inflexible. After all, a film set is not a democracy. A wise director knows when and how much input to let in.
  11. Luke_Clone Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    For all of you who, like me, were similarly impressed by Hayden's stand on this issue I would suggest checking out the latest SW Insider. The work he put into this film, according to himself, is phenomenal... he went above and beyond what was expected of him.

    This same magazine has an interview with Natalie Portman and in the process of reading it I unfortunately realized why her performance wasn't as good as I thought it could have been. :(
  12. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    MINI_YODA- I can't hardly even understand pig-latin, much less Japanese! :D

    Darn I was just at B&N and didn't see the Insider, guess I have to go back again and get that issue....
  13. Anakin_Skywalker20 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2000
    star 5
    Natalie wasn't that bad in the movie... cripes!! please! She was great. :)
  14. Kiki-Gonn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2001
    star 6
    Agreed.

    As was stated earlier, he acting in the confession is (IMO) part of what made the scene great.

    Her expression of growing fear mixed with sympathy, especially after the "stop people from dying" line was perfect.
  15. JediGirl1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 1
    Sounds like a serious interview, how about some more quotes - JediJag

    Hayden heard that Arena contributing editor Harry Knowles has seen the film, and is eager to know what he thought of it.

    "Damn. I only spoke to George last night and I was asking him when I could see the film. George said nobody had seen it yet. I'm doing a junket for the movie at Skywalker Ranch in early May so I hope they let me see it before then".

    He is especially interested to hear Knowles' report on the film's climatic battle between Count Dooku and the now totally computer generated Jedi Master Yoda.

    "That was the one scene where when I read the script I thought - Man, this could really suck". Why? "Because when you read it it's basically a little green frog with a sword, flying around doing all of this crazy stuff. Visually it's such a risk. It's all going to be done by the people at ILM. I didn't know what to make of it and I tried not to think about that section of the story as we were filming".

    At least he got to read a complete version of the script. For the filming of ESB and ROTJ even the principal actors were only given the pages of the script relevant to their character. Mark Hamill only knew that DV was to be his screen dad when he shot the scene in the Bespin bowels where he confronts and is beaten by Vader. GL reasoned that the knowledge of his illustrious parentage would have negatively influenced the way Hamill appraoched the role.

    Hope this isn't getting too boring for you all. [face_blush]

  16. SithSorceress Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 1
    Boring? I love it, JediGirl! I've been a SW fan forever (since I was 5-that's forever for me-I can't remember any further back) but I'm also new to this Forum business.
    From one Newbie to another: auspicious begining, this is.
  17. Kiki-Gonn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2001
    star 6
    Me too SC!!!
    My first really vivid memory is watching SW in the theater as a four year old.

    We are the luckiest people on Earth!!!
  18. Luke_Clone Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    More More More! :) Not even David Prowse knew what he was "saying" in the I am your father scene. I suppose that is going a bit far, but talk about a major spoiler! ;)
  19. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    I just picked up a magazine called "Dreamwatch" and it had an interesting quote from Hayden regarding his take on GL:

    regarding Lucas not being an actors director...
    "That wasn't my impression. I think George is very specific with his direction. He's got so many things to focus on, that he can't really give an actor all of his attention all the time, and that's why I think he maybe gets that bad rap.

    "I think George has actually been one of the best directors I've had the opportunity to work with- and will have the opportunity to work with- because it's rare to be in a position where you're taking direction from the person who has imagined your character, and imagined the relationships, and why they exist and how they're going to proceed in the story. [There are] so many questions you have, you know you're getting the absolute right answer, and you know that if you're pleasing him and if he's happy with you're work, then you know you're doing your job the best it can be done because he's really your only audience at that point."
  20. Zanath Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2002
    star 1
    JediGirl, do you know what he finally thought of the Yoda fight scene? I'd be interested to know.
  21. JediGirl1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 1
    Do you know what he finally thought of the Yoda fight scene? I'd be interested to know. - Zanath

    Actually, it does not really say because the interview took place sometime in April before the movie was released. The only other thing it talks about is that he (HC) got a complete version of the script two and a half weeks before principal photography began in Sydney. His initial reaction to what he read, bearing in mind that he had signed onto a project not even knowing its title, was one of excitement and tellingly, relief.

    "It has all the other themes that you expect in a Star Wars film, but it had a stronger sense of human attraction, relationship and character growth".

    I remember reading somewhere a couple of weeks ago that he and his brother snuck into a theatre in L.A. to see it one night and that he could not stand the sound of his voice!

    The other funny little thing was at the beginning of the article. The first time the interviwer meets with Hayden they sit down to chat for half an hour in the presence of one of Lucas's senior aides who, while never intruding on the conversation, imparts just enough of an impression that this man (HC) is a very, very important property to Lucasfilm. Unsurprisingly, given the company, most of Hayden's answers are worthy of graduates of the United Nations school for extreme diplomacy. The interviewer also states that Hayden was much less guarded and more open in their subsequent meetings.
  22. TheVioletBurns Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 4
  23. Zanath Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2002
    star 1
    "he could not stand the sound of his voice!"

    I have the same problem. Whenever one of my family members is filming at a party and I talk, I just hide when it is played back. I hate my voice!
  24. Tellesto Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 1999
    star 5
    Beforehand I wasn?t exactly a Hayden basher, and to this day I maintain the fact that Lucas looks upon him as one of his favorite persons behind the Star Wars saga, even above past actors of the Original Trilogy. His skill at portraying an emotional wreck seems to be quite high, and for a role like Anakin Skywalker, that?s very good.
    What I really liked about this article was the fact that Hayden had not only the guts to challenge Lucas? direction for this crucial moment, but the fact that he had gotten so into the role and the story that he felt he had a better approach to telling it.
    All of the other actors, including the ever-present Ewan, have just kind of fizzled out and bashed Lucas once the movie was said and done. The cool thing about this though is that an actor actually took interest in the role they were playing, and on a larger scale, the ramifications their acting and characterization would have on the story as a whole.
    Natalie and Ewan have yet to challenge Lucas onset like that, they just seem to be interested in reading their lines and hoping that Lucas wrote them well enough this time around. Of course their philosophy is ?if it isn?t good this time, bash it until the next.?

    As for Hayden?s idea of Anakin breaking down from the very start of the scene, I do have to admit that it?s interesting. Obviously, he knew that Anakin was an emotional character with a lot of feelings going on in his head, so he was trying his best to portray that throughout the entire film. And then bam, right at the most powerful and defining moment of the Anakin story for Episode II, Lucas tells him to tone it down a bit?
    Either way, I?m glad they compromised, because it flows really well with both of their ideas present. Watching Anakin bitterly deteriorate through that scene into one final mess is a very surreal experience; I think Lucas? direction and Hayden?s input were perfect together.
  25. TK_Four_Two_One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2002
    star 5
    Like i said in the other thread similar to this- i feel this is the best bit of acting in a Star Wars movie- so far.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.