JCC God Exists.

Discussion in 'Community' started by Rogue_Ten, Jun 3, 2013.

?

God Exists.

yes 51 vote(s) 40.5%
no 40 vote(s) 31.7%
nnnnnNNNNOOOOOOOOO!!!! 22 vote(s) 17.5%
dunno 35 vote(s) 27.8%
no curr 5 vote(s) 4.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Rachel_In_Red Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2013
    star 2
    You can always believe in yourself and your ability forge your own destiny, for the most part. When times get tough, I don't pray. I tell myself to suck it up and do what you have to do to make it. Works for me.
    jedimikey likes this.
  2. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Besides, it is a proven fact that prayer doesn't actually do anything.

    If what you pray for is a part of God's plan, it will happen even if you didn't pray.
    If what you pray for is not a part of God's plan, it will not happen no matter how hard you pray.

    So this proves that prayer is either redundant or futile; either way, it's useless.
  3. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 7
    1) There is, at least, some evidence for the existence of God. It may not be convincing to you, but it is there. For instance, all of the people who have claimed to have experienced God in real and clear ways, over thousands and thousands of years. In order for God to be nonexistent, every single one of those instances must be false. In order for God to be true, only one of those instances need be true. But that's the logic. The evidence is simply the probably billions of people who claim to have experienced God.

    Somehow, I doubt Christians would take "personal experience" as evidence for the veracity of Islam or Buddhism. This is just a terrible argument all around.
  4. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 7
    What Plantinga assumes, incorrectly is that the notion of God is capable of providing a grounding for a transcendent morality. Of course it can't, you end up simply with an all-powerful tyrant who will, in the last resort, punish you. (Because the Jews and early Christians were incapable of imagining a moral system not backed by the threat of punishment.
  5. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 7
    Moreover, you can turn this argument around quite easily. People have been experiencing transcendental "spiritual" things since the beginning of the human race, and yet only in a rather narrow window of time has that been attributed to Yahweh. Therefore, whatever is causing these experiences is something that can account for Thor, Zeus, Yahweh, Jesus, Allah, etc etc etc.

    It stands to reason that human beings simply have a proclivity for experiencing the world in a spiritual way, and that the content of the system in which that finds expression varies by culture.
    Last edited by Emperor_Billy_Bob, Jun 15, 2013
  6. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
  7. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 8
    So, hear plus soul, how comfortable are you with the process of raping and destroying Germanic, Nordic and Celtic traditions so the empire of Christianity could expand? Was it worth it?
  8. hear+soul Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 6
    First of all, to everyone saying, "yeah but what about other religions" for my experiencing God argument.... I didn't say that proved the Christian God is real above other gods. I have mostly argued for God in general, though I also touched on the veracity of the new testament. But that statement is just about God, whatever religion has him right, being real, generally.

    Man has been experiencing God for thousands and thousands of years. Billions have claimed to have experienced him, some in miraculous ways. Once again, it doesn't matter the religion here, only one of those instances have to be true for God to exist. Statistically, those are good odds. For atheism to be true, every single one of those persons had to be... insane? momentarily delusional? consistently delusional? Entire cultures. The vast majority of the world throughout history has/had to be wrong about what they experienced. All kinds of people in all kinds of times in all kinds of cultures. Their personal experiences. Unintelligent and intelligent, learned and unlearned, scientific minds and philosophical minds even today. Those are bad odds.

    Religion aside.

    Well, of course, those people weren't acting on Christian principles. Were they loving their neighbor? no. While, unfortunately, these actions have pushed people away from Christianity, rightly so, I would submit it is not actual proof against Christianity.

    I posted this before, but this much wiser man, Tim Keller, interviewed by Martin Bashir, addresses this issue exactly. It's 6 minutes and 29 seconds. He points out the best case against this notion: Martin Luther King, Jr.
  9. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    If something is real, then it can be experienced by everybody. So yes, every one of those people were under a delusion or hallucination. You might also want to look up the concept of confirmation bias; people who want to experience God will see God in everything.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  10. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    It's not who He is underneath. It's what He does that defines Him.

    God is Batman.
  11. Rachel_In_Red Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2013
    star 2
    I didn't even use God in my example.

    How many times has someone claimed to have seen Bigfoot, a UFO/ET, Nessie, or ghosts? Countless times. Are all of those sightings the result of lies or misidentification? Can we take a reasonable stance that all of those beings/phenomena exist because they have many eyewitnesses? I would really like to hear your answer for that.

    The funny thing about God is that in biblical times He (or Jesus) performed many epic miracles seemingly every other week. However, as science and communication have developed you don't hear about these things anymore. Thousands of years ago, people didn't understand nearly as much about the world and communication was heavily reliant on hearsay. Nowadays, if some totally unexplainable grand miracle happened on the other side of the world, most all of us would know about it and see videos/pictures within the hour - or sooner. Our ability to scrutinize is vastly - VASTLY - more advanced now than 2,000+ years ago.
  12. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    The number of miracles performed by a deity is strictly related to the level of technology and intelligence in the region where the miracle supposedly occurred.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  13. Rachel_In_Red Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2013
    star 2
    There's a strong relationship, yes.
  14. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    Ok, so what if people in other religions see more than one god? Like in Hindu or other pagan religions. These people weren't just seeing these multiple deities thousands of years ago. It still happens today. A lot of the old pagan religions still exist. Does that mean there is more than one god?
  15. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    when the printing press was invented sightings of dragons reduced dramatically.
    timmoishere likes this.
  16. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    That's because around that time the dovahkiin slayed all the dragons and absorbed their souls.
  17. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    But then Daenerys managed to hatch three new ones to help her on her quest to reclaim the Iron Throne for the Targaryen line.
  18. tom Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 6
    i wouldn't call it delusional so much as trying to give a name to something you can't explain. you'll notice these instances have grown far more seldom as we've figured out the actual science behind earthquakes, volcanoes, the northern lights, etc. unless you're talking about a more personal experience of god. "something weird happened in my brain, guess there must be a god". but billions of people have had weird thoughts! um, duh.
  19. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    When inventing a god, the most important thing is to claim that it is invisible, inaudible and imperceptible in every way. Otherwise, people will become skeptical when it appears to no one, is silent, and does nothing.
  20. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
    I'm curious to see where Hear will be five years from now. My gut tells me that he will not be as firm of a believer. His faith still has that new car smell to it. Time will tell, I guess.
    Rogue_Ten likes this.
  21. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    otoh, who really thought OZK would still be playing at catholocism in the year of our lord 2013?
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Jun 16, 2013
  22. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    What is OZK? Is that a person here?
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Jun 16, 2013
  23. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
  24. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
  25. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
    He was hard core fundamentalist Christian before. What's the next logical step for him? Mormonism? I could also see him dropping out and becoming Amish.
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