Discussion in 'Community' started by Rogue_Ten, Jun 3, 2013.
For the sake of argument, I'll go along with the 'religion is fiction' premise.
Let's compare SW and say, Christianity in terms of world-views . World-view involves cosmology, ethical/moral system, etc.
Now, Star Wars fans (other than anakinfansince1983), be honest with yourself/yourselves. Compare the world-view of Star Wars versus the Biblical or Christian world-view. Would you really find the world-view of Star Wars any 'better' than that of the Bible or Christianity? Does the ethical/moral system of SW really seem that much more coherent or compelling to you than the Biblical or Christian one? Be honest.
I mean, let's look at the Star Wars world-view.
There is something called the Force. The Force has a 'light-side' and a 'dark side' (This cosmology reminds me very much of Zoroastrianism).
In this universe there is an organization made up of light-side users called 'the Jedi'. But there is also an organization of dark-side users called 'the Sith'. Apparently in the world-view of Star Wars (and Lucas*, perhaps?), it is 'unacceptable' to the Force for there to be an organization made up of dark-side USERS, but it's 'acceptable' that a dark-side of the Force itself exists in the first place. Oh, and saying that the dark side 'just is'....is not an answer, because one could say the same thing about the Sith.
* G. Lucas, a Marin County "Buddhist-Methodist" my ***
no one cares, dude
I hate to break it to you, but the vast majority of people in this forum could not give the slightest **** about Star Wars world-view.
Two people = NO ONE?
SOMEONE on TF.N 'cares' enough about the world-view in order to defend it to the point of being almost making an apologetic of SW. You think I've never seen a poster or two go to this length on these boards? Think again.
Then again, playing the "no one cares, dude" internet college-boy card because an 'outsider' dared come into your 'discussion' group is a pretty predictable cop-out tactic. If you have no points of your own to offer in response to mine, THEN DON'T RESPOND TO ME PERIOD. Simple.
That may be, but I want to hear from people who have a problem with the biblical/Christian world-view to explain why they do so, but have no problem 'accepting' the story world-view of the SW universe. Saying one 'doesn't care' just comes off as a cop-out. Youtube idiots need not apply.
I thought this was a 'discussion' forum? Guess I was wrong.......
Better luck in the Saga forum, dude
The JCC is not for Star Wars (or being too serious)
Inadvertently summing up the JCC forever.
darth ghost stop trying to be cool. the grownups have this one handled already
"Does the ethical/moral system of SW really seem that much more coherent or compelling to you than the Biblical or Christian one? Be honest"
No. I like Star Wars for for cool space battles and scary Darth Vader, and it's never inspired me to ponder deep philosophical questions. However, the Force clearly exists, we see it actually be manipulated. That doesn't mesh with anything observed about any religion these days.
It pertains to the thread topic, though.
Why start such a discussion in the first place then?
'It exists' in a fictional story because the author (Lucas) wanted it to be there.
"It's not real (god) because I didn't witness it" or "ancient people were stupid" or "god is a cosmic lotto machine or he's useless" (???)
But I wasn't so much asking regarding the evidential/epistemological aspect, but the world-view or ethics. You see a coherent ethic/morality in SW that's actually better than 'religion'?
No. I've never bothered to look. I don't look at movies to form my ethics, just like I don't read the Bible.
Then I guess you don't have an opinion on the Bible or Christianity. Fair enough.
And no, we didn't 'see' the Force happen on screen. I'm an A-Force-ist. We saw people who thought/hallucinated that they had powers. And if there is a good Force, why did it allow the Jedi purge to happen? Why did it allow that Ewok to get killed?
I'm not gay, but I still have an opinion on gay marriage, just like I've never had an abortion but still have an opinion on it.
I don't read the Bible to form my ethics. I've read some of it before (I had 5 years of Lutheran school.)
Yeah but you're not discussing, you're basically the equivalent of a rabidly enthusiastic and probably homeless person preaching on a street corner. The smell, the fury, and the incomprehensible message cause people to disengage and that's why they walk in wide circles around your posts.
Right....in other words, I'm not speaking to your level. Ad-hom is all you have. I get it.
People should be able to spout about subjects that they don't know a thing about - theology, in this case - and expect to go unchallenged.
"It's not WHAT is being said but WHO is saying it" , I guess. Cheap rhetorical games/excuses. Good thing I don't live on the internet, I suppose. True Story.
As I said earlier, BYE. Thanks.
I can't say I'm all that surprised by the reaction I've gotten in this thread. anakinfansince1983 has been the only one here to engage in the discussion with me, though.
This is the kind of statement that leaves me deeply confused. In the first place, I've never known anyone to assert that teaching religion to children doesn't involve the same sort of methods as teaching them to set the table. There's no pretense for you to remove. In the second, what does it matter whether any of these things may be technically termed "coercion" or not? There's no lasting (or even short term, really) negative impact, children are demonstrably capable of changing their mind about it without much difficulty, and there's not a discernible social cost. So outside of diehard libertarians with some abstracted and perverse notion of "maximizing freedom," why should anyone note or care about these phenomenon that you admit are basically anodyne?
The impact is absolutely tenable, Wocky. The idea is planted and some people will simply never question it out of fear; fear of exclusion, fear of defiance, and the general fear that gives the weak comfort in religion.
Substitute religion with Marxism in the USSR and tell me you feel the same way?
TOSCHE, people aren't engaging because you're a) talking at them and b) barking mad. You can't blame them for this.