Discussion in 'Community' started by Rogue_Ten, Jun 3, 2013.
Whatever man, god's an old Jewish guy with a cigar habit who makes great comics.
Does God want a Starship?
If so, what does he want with it?
old but good
Holy Ghost writers, my dear Watson.
If not, then explain this:
Well, this is horribly ignorant commentary. In a number of religions, the priestly class is closed, or at least only open conditionally. That precludes people joining just because they want to. And I should hope you see how horribly stupid it is for accusing someone of being insincere just because they don't contradict their own beliefs to do what makes sense to you.
I want to say, on a non-serious note, Ramza had the best response to the thread title.
moving on, Wocky- that part about contradicting your beliefs is a great point. And I do believe that not everyone is called to be a priest, pastor, or leader, in the ways that we generally think of it. That said, I also believe that all Christians are called to preach/share the Gospel and make disciples, according to the great commission (Matthew 28:16-20). That might look different from one person to another, but one of the main goals is sharing (because, if I really believe what I believe, how loving would it be to keep it to myself? but I digress...). So, to Debo's point, to a certain extent, in Christianity, he's right: if you're not living it out, it's just another set piece in your life. And living it out, again, to whatever extent you are called, definitely involves being a priest, of sorts, from the right perspective.
Before I get deeper into this conversation, I'd like to direct anyone really seeking wisdom on this topic to someone far wiser and more knowledgeable than I, which is Tim Keller, who is notable for writing Reason For God and pastoring/founding Redeemer Presbyterian Church in NYC. Many would describe him as an apologist, and he's a big fan of C.S. Lewis (who was an atheist for a time, btw), so that gives you an idea of where he's coming from, if you're familiar with Lewis's non-fiction work. Here's a quick video from him at this thing called the Veritas Forum, where they basically go to big colleges (like Columbia) and conduct interviews between reputable reporters and Christian thinkers (my understanding, anyway).
[Martin Bashir interviews Tim Keller]
full interview (also with Dr. David Eisenbach).
Ok, so now, I'll try and see if I have something more to contribute here...
If one God exist...then they all Exist. Choose one or choose them all.
Kinda like Pokemon.
If god exists, I demand he, she, or it give me a sign in the next five minutes. Go on, convert me!
I will report back.
I know, it's too late.
Debo is sort of right, but also wrong. If people truly believed in the promises of Christian afterlife, they would be much less given to any sort of earthliness than they all actually are. Sainthood would be the only sane response to the actual reality of Christianity. To quote my main man Nietzsche, "The Christians have never practiced the actions Jesus prescribed them; and the impudent garrulous talk about the "justification by faith" and its supreme and sole significance is only the consequence of the Church's lack of courage and will to profess the works Jesus demanded."
The sublimated secret of Christianity is that its very uncertainty and absurdity is supposed to drive you towards ever greater affirmations of its truth.
I totally agree. We can't fully comprehend him (we can to a certain extent, or you wouldn't be able to write what you did), and we can't know him, unless he allowed/allows himself to be known. So, if you believe what you do, I think the next question would be, has he done that? How would I find it?
Well, my personal opinion, based on what I've read in scripture, is that those Christians are misguided. Jesus didn't preach rebellion against or a plot to control or overthrow government. He said render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. His way is much bigger and smaller than government. Those people, I would advise, need to be more involved in their children's lives. Teach your children. Talk with them about what's going on with them every day. You can't expect the government to raise your kids for you. And you're right, forcing your morality on others is not the way. Everyone has a choice. If you force something on someone, even if they conform, they're not truly following of their own volition.
If you believe in God, then surely the most important question in the universe, aka the next step, would be "why are we here?" followed by what is the nature of your relationship to Him? I'm not saying anything other than encouraging you to seek that out, as it may be unwise to simply sit still with that knowledge. It may be.
I know this was intended as a joke, but just to show you the Biblical response:
Matthew 19:16-26- Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
“Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,' and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”
“All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
1 Corinthians 13:1-3-If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
God? That's the dude whose last name is "Dammit", right? He's my buddy, I usually end up yelling his name when I'm pissed off. I even caught my 8-year-old yelling his name once, after he missed a target with his Nerf blaster.
So funny that Arlol bails, and now this jesus freak comes back.
If you truly believe, you have to dedicate your life to it. There's no other way. You can't believe on the side, or whenever it's convenient for you. I was talking about Christianity, but you can replace the word 'priest' with 'prophet', 'martyr', 'holy man', if that helps you to understand the idea. Just not with 'pizza-swallowing fat dude who only prays when he wants his favorite sports team to score a goal.'
And also, Jabba-wocky, if you sincerely hope I see 'how horribly stupid' my way of reasoning is, your hope is in vain. But if you believe in God, surely you're used to that.
That is not logical.
Even when Jesus raised people from the dead, some did not believe. Even after 500 people saw him risen, when all the believers were gathered together at Pentacost, there were only 120. You have many signs, but you choose not to see them. We view the world through the lens we choose. "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." -Romans 1:20
And if Jesus Christ is real and He is who He claims to be, and Christianity is true, look at where you find yourself.
Adam of Nuchtern
1- He did not have sex with her. If he exists, He created the world from nothing, so why would he be constrained to human limitations of creating life, which we barely have control over, anyway?
2- Adam and Eve may have been the first to sin, but you and I have confirmed that choice. I've sinned more times than I can remember, even from childhood.And secondly, that does not conflict with a forgiving nature. In fact, in order to forgive, there must be a wrong to forgive. That doesn't make sin good, but it is an accurate response to your point.
3- The old law has been fulfilled. Some of it is still in effect, through Jesus and the apostles' reinforcement and because of truth, and some was for a certain time. It is specifically said more than once in the new testament that eating all meat is okay.
4- As a sign of a covenant. He then laid down his life. I'd say that's the bigger sacrifice. And, once again, circumcision is no longer required.
5- This is cultural, to a degree. Some cultures do get married that early, or have. Otherwise, there's something to be said for patience. You don't learn much without difficulty.
6- Outsourced... kind of. But even given that perspective, we are his to outsource to. And isn't it cool that God allows us to take place in His work? Rephrase: If the God of the universe has a job (for now, reconciling God and man), which he considers the most important responsibility in all of existence and the universe, isn't it awesome that he would then extend and invitation to you to be a part of that? And, of course, I disagree that it makes no sense. Sometimes it's not an easy read, and other times it's very plain. There are multiple forms of literature included. There are many authors, and yet, it is cohesive to the point of amazement. Prophecies from hundreds of years before Christ were fulfilled. That's pretty incredible.
7- This world is broken. Death is a part of it. It will be that way until it passes away. But the sun, as I'm sure you'd agree, is a very good thing. All receive its light, without which there would be no life or, at the minimum, productivity, and not all are afflicted with cancer. Thank God.
Trolls trolling trolls.
hear+ soul - who are you trying to convince, us or yourself? Relax. Please. Being a frothing at the mouth biblical avenger of message board mockery of the Lord is not necessary to be a good christian. It is just kind of sad really.
Well, yes and no. We are still in a broken, sinful world and are, ourselves, sinful beings, but we are offered forgiveness for that, and God says "If you love me, keep my commandments," so after being offered justification for free (just repent and ask, and you are forgiven, believe and you are saved, by grace), as we seek Him ("follow me") and grow in love towards Him, we also take steps to follow his will, which means obeying, though, in all of my experience, that does not mean all at once. God meets you where you are at and gives you only what you can handle. I've wrestled with addictions of all kinds, alcoholism, tobacco, pornography, etc., as well as anger, loneliness, pride... And some of those, like pride, is something I'm still learning a lot about and getting better, but, Thank God, he has set me free of the first three I mentioned, though lust is still a factor.... :/ But He defeated those in me and not all at once, more like one at a time, and the great thing is He does the changing. It's my responsibility to take the next step, like maybe trying to read the Bible every day is something I had to work on for a while... but he also gives me the ability and motivation to do all that... I'm caught in the rivers of grace. I love John 16:33:
“I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
I say all that to say that yes, he sets us free from sin, but it is a process, and one that I don't think often ends in this life. I've seen amazing change in me and others, though, so it does happen and is real, but you're right, if you're a Christian, your life should change. You shouldn't be indiscernable from the masses, or else what's the point? And Jesus says he will spit the lukewarm from his mouth. It is better to be hot or cold than to be lukewarm.
on Sainthood- Biblically, a saint is anyone who is saved. So, strictly speaking, a saint may be struggling with sin like everyone else, depending on where he or she is in their walk with God. And, of course, sometimes we stumble, but forgiveness is waiting. Just keep walking. Grace.
Nietzsche is wrong, but he is also right. Has no Christian ever truly followed Christ's work? Indeed, some, many even, have. Mother Theresa is an easy example, so, here, I use it. And there are many all over who give and preach and love and serve. Jesus is the King of servants.
But you're right, many Christians cling to the grace and forget that "you will know them by their fruits" and that "works are the proof of repentance." Grace is the foundation, but works are the proof. And many professing Christians are not Christians, plain and simple, unfortunately.
Scariest verse in the Bible:
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" -Matthew 7:21-23
I am not frothing at the mouth, I assure you. I am simply responding. If you read what I have written, I think you will agree. As to your second point, I would point you to the above verse. Show me what I have done wrong.
I am long since convinced. I was at the lowest point in my life, stealing, lying, lost in sin and depression to the point of suicide, and He rescued me and set me free. He is real and he saved me, even, quite literally, my very life.
"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest." -Matthew 11:28
That's my testimony, since you asked, more or less.
Now, back to the discussion.
I completely agree.
Of course, there is hope for those who you describe later in your post, and sometimes those who follow stumble, but you are exactly right.