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JCC God Exists.

Discussion in 'Community' started by Rogue_Ten, Jun 3, 2013.

?

God Exists.

  1. yes

    40.5%
  2. no

    31.7%
  3. nnnnnNNNNOOOOOOOOO!!!!

    17.5%
  4. dunno

    27.8%
  5. no curr

    4.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. MarcusP2

    MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 2004
    Is that argument really boil down to 'God exists because these things exist and I explain them with God'? Because that's what it seems like.
     
    Bob Octa, RC-1991, V-2 and 2 others like this.
  2. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    This thread is a mess
     
    Juliet316 likes this.
  3. harpua

    harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    I'm not an atheist.
     
    V-2 likes this.
  4. Adam of Nuchtern

    Adam of Nuchtern Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
  5. hear+soul

    hear+soul Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2004
    Diggy I'm sitting down already, but you may want to read my response to you again. Logically speaking, it is possible, I agree, that God does not exist. But the lens through which you choose to look significantly affects what you see. You choose to see no God, and so, of course, you see no signs, because you believe there aren't any in the first place. Even if there was a sign, the kind that you want...

    I heard a pretty good relay of this idea:

    So, if God came down in physical form and was in this room speaking to you, and picked up your house and threw it into the sky, would you believe? Probably not, because he already did that (not the house bit). He came down, raised people from the dead, healed the sick, walked on water, rose from the dead and appeared to over 500 witnesses, but many of them, even, didn't ultimately believe. This is what the Bible, itself, says. It is your choice.

    But, as I said, you want your sign, whatever that is. And, as I said, if what I say is true....

    follow me, here...

    If what I say is true, then look at where you are right now. You're in a thread about whether or not God is true, with one of his disciples preaching his gospel to you, and offering to do his best to explain how, logically and scientifically, he is real. If God is real, this is a sign to you. You may not believe it or see it and maybe he'll send you other signs, but, If God is real, the world around us attests to Him. The heavens declare the glory of the Lord, the Bible says. Man is without excuse.

    I want to re-post this:

    Before I get deeper into this conversation, I'd like to direct anyone really seeking wisdom on this topic to someone far wiser and more knowledgeable than I, which is Tim Keller, who is notable for writing Reason For God and pastoring/founding Redeemer Presbyterian Church in NYC. Many would describe him as an apologist, and he's a big fan of C.S. Lewis (who was an atheist for a time, btw), so that gives you an idea of where he's coming from, if you're familiar with Lewis's non-fiction work. Here's a quick video from him at this thing called the Veritas Forum, where they basically go to big colleges (like Columbia) and conduct interviews between reputable reporters and Christian thinkers (my understanding, anyway).

    [Martin Bashir interviews Tim Keller]
    full interview (also with Dr. David Eisenbach).
     
  6. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    I dunno, it's already a steaming-



    Wait, can I make this joke?
     
  7. George Roper

    George Roper Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Fixed.
     
    Ender_Sai and Darth Guy like this.
  8. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Darth_Predacon, a bunch of theologians don't count as "expert testimony" when it comes to the universe. You will lose. Badly. I give you this opportunity because I don't like having total and complete victories. They're not fun. But I will not hesitate.
     
    Lowbacca_1977 and V-2 like this.
  9. harpua

    harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    I'm pretty sure this is Rogue_Ten 's most successful troll thread, to date.
     
    imperial_dork, RC-1991, V-2 and 7 others like this.
  10. Rachel_In_Red

    Rachel_In_Red Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 12, 2013
    I don't think there are any deities, no.
     
  11. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    I always wonder why an intelligent fellow like rogue ten doesn't have anything better to do
     
  12. hear+soul

    hear+soul Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2004
    No, I would disagree. How much did you read? Alternately, where did you see that?
    So, why don't you want to discuss what you asked me about, then? I mean, that's fine. If you want to stop, obviously, go ahead, but it seems to me the progression of my assertion, your questioning, then my response, which was fairly simple and sort of a "what part would you like to talk about?" doesn't seem to warrant a "DONE WITH THIS" answer. We didn't even begin to discuss it, how could you be tired of it, already?

    If you do leave, goodnight and thank you for the time you did spend talking with me. :)

    Adam of Nuchtern you forgot the

    [face_party]
    [face_party]

    Lord Vivec First of all, keep in mind all does not rest on that argument alone. That said, go right ahead. You seem to know a lot about it, so please, inform me. I will do my best to respond, though I do think I shall do so tomorrow. [face_tired]
     
  13. Adam of Nuchtern

    Adam of Nuchtern Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012

    "Some users just want to watch the forum burn."
     
  14. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Darth Maximal, I prefer my meal fighting and angry, not resigned and exhausted.
     
  15. PRENNTACULAR

    PRENNTACULAR VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2005
    I think this thread proves that if god does exist, she's really overrated.
     
  16. hear+soul

    hear+soul Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2004
    Tomorrow, then. Though, this is a message board, so you may start, and I will respond tomorrow, if you like. But I'll post when I am on the boards, otherwise. I do intend on accomplishing things tomorrow, so if this is as significant a debate as is possible, it may stretch more than a day. Anyway, have it it, or I will see you tomorrow.

    Norman Geisler is author or coauthor of some sixty books, including The Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics and his four-volume Systematic Theology. He has taught at the university and graduate level for nearly forty years and has spoken or debated in all fifty states and twenty-five countries. He holds a PhD in philosophy from Loyola University and now serves as president of Southern Evangelical Seminary, near Charlotte, North Carolina.

    This will be one of the experts I will be drawing from, and, of course, his research on the subject, which comes from many, many sources. But it really doesn't matter. The arguments should stand or fall on their own merits.

    adieu. [face_cowboy]

    btw, loving the references to my old name. :cool:
     
  17. tom

    tom Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2004
    all religion boils down to a leap of faith. to try to use arguments to prove your religion is true is like trying to kick water uphill.
     
  18. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Darth dinobot, he has a phd in nonsense ( sorry quix, hey whatever happened to that guy?). So yeah bring me some physicists if you want to talk cosmology and the universe.
     
    Lowbacca_1977 and V-2 like this.
  19. Condition2SQ

    Condition2SQ Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2012
    The God of the Jews did/does not exist. The Pentateuch is demonstrably ahistorical and unscientific. Since Jesus putative divinity is linked to his fulfillment of prophecies(most of which are construed as "messianic prophecies" via some extremely creative exegetical gymnastics) in the Old Testament, your argument is entirely circular. Furthermore, the Gospels are not "eyewitness testimony" of Jesus. Even evangelical Bibles concede that Mark was the earliest Gospel written, at around 60 AD. That's around twenty-five years after the death of Jesus. Even if the author of Mark was an eyewitness to Jesus--highly unlikely--that's still virtually meaningless when it comes to the attestation of miracles. Say your very best friend--the person you trust most in the entire world--comes to you tomorrow and says, "Dude, today at school, this guy came and raised a dead body back to life. I swear on the life of my mother, this really happened", you're still probably not going to believe him, because the event being reported is so extraordinarily unlikely that it's more likely that your friend, however genuinely well-convicted, is mistaken. Even given these best of circumstances, the veracity of the claim is highly dubious. And yet the claims of an anonymous author who wrote twenty-five years after the death of Jesus--in a pre-scientific era when peoples where exponentially more credulous than today--is supposed to be convincing testimony?

    Jesus was an iconoclastic Jewish rabbi who taught empathy, compassion, and humility in incredibly creative, poetic and beautiful ways. The nascent movement surrounding him caught the attention of certain religious and political authorities and he ended up being crucified under circumstances that will never be fully understood. He's still dead. The End.
     
  20. MarcusP2

    MarcusP2 Games and Community Reaper star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 2004
    Right there. It is true that God exists because: the universe was created, which requires God, the universe works, which requires God, and morality exists, which requires God.

    But none of those things requires god at all.
     
    Bob Octa, V-2 and SithLordDarthRichie like this.
  21. timmoishere

    timmoishere Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    There is no evidence that God exists. Zero. None.

    If you are claiming that God exists because the Bible says so, then the accuracy of the Bible must be scrutinized with the largest magnifying glass you can find. Because if the Bible shows any inaccuracies at any point, then it becomes easier to dismiss the whole thing; if the part about Jonah being swallowed by a whale is proven to be false, who says the rest of it can't be false too? For what it's worth, the story of Noah's Ark has been proven to be false.

    Furthermore, I can just as easily use a Harry Potter book to prove that Hogwarts exists.
     
  22. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Masturbating all day gets harder as you get older.

    I mean, so I am told. [face_monkey]

    I just got off the phone to God, and He said He doesn't exist.
     
    V-2 likes this.
  23. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002

    credit where credit is due. ******* FINALLY!
     
    V-2 and mindthegap like this.
  24. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002

    crippling depression, holmes
     
  25. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    mods please add the additional option "no curr" to the poll. i, the OP of this thread, command it
     
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