1. MERRY "TALK LIKE A PIRATE" DAY! ARR!

JCC God Exists.

Discussion in 'Community' started by Rogue_Ten, Jun 3, 2013.

?

God Exists.

yes 51 vote(s) 40.5%
no 40 vote(s) 31.7%
nnnnnNNNNOOOOOOOOO!!!! 22 vote(s) 17.5%
dunno 35 vote(s) 27.8%
no curr 5 vote(s) 4.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Ok, @hear+soul, here is the proof that the story of Noah's Ark is false:

    The Bible says that it rained for 40 days and nights until all of the Earth was covered in water. In order for that to occur, you would need over 800 times the heaviest rainfall ever recorded (which occurred in Madagascar) AND that heavy rainfall would have to be maintained globally for the entire 40 days.

    On a related note, the oceans would have to rise at least 9 feet per hour to each the top of Mount Everest in 40 days.

    So now that begs the question of where all that water came from. Even if all of the polar ice caps suddenly melted, the oceans would only rise about 250 feet.

    So that proves the oceans couldn't have covered the entire globe.


    My second point involves the Ark itself. A boat of its dimensions simply cannot hold two of every one of the millions of land-based species on the planet. And when you account for food supplies and general space to move around, no sane person could ever claim this story was accurate.


    So there you have it, the story of Noah's Ark is proven to be false.
    V-2 likes this.
  2. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    Perhaps the known world was covered in water, I'm sure I read somewhere that there was a flood thousands of years ago that covered much of the Middle-East region. That's hardly the whole of Earth, but to the people experiencing it to see water for hundreds of miles in all directions it must have seemed like the whole world.

    And again, the known animals of the world at the time would likely have been significantly less than we know of now. Even then I doubt a boat could be made at the time that was big enough to hold two of everything.

    I don't doubt Biblical stories are based on elements of truth, but like many legends they are exaggerated from times when people didn't understand science or scale or other such things.

    These are moral tales, like other fables. The purpose of them is to teach a lesson, not to be taken literally.
    Last edited by SithLordDarthRichie, Jun 5, 2013
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  3. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    All freshwater (and perhaps saltwater) species would be killed as well, and you can't exactly carry those around on boats. And what about all the plants that would drown from a flood?


    It's fun nitpicking an obviously fantastical story!
    Last edited by Darth Guy, Jun 5, 2013
    V-2 likes this.
  4. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    God just cast his Word and all that evidence was placed there to test and fool all humanity. [face_talk_hand]
  5. SuperWatto Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2000
    star 5
    And they're always loners, and they always leave after a coupla days.
    Maybe they're angels, sent by God, and we're all being tested.
    [face_worried]
  6. LostOnHoth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2000
    star 5
    Yes and the fact that nobody has yet mentioned invisible pink unicorns or celestial teapots is a sign that we have all grown up and we now just accept that new converts have to go through this period of burning apologetic fever. It's like a right of passage or something.
    Last edited by LostOnHoth, Jun 5, 2013
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  7. Darth-Lando Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    Check out the similarities between Noah's Ark and the flood myth in The Epic of Gilgamesh.
    tl;dr version: God(s) cause a worldwide flood but tell one mortal man about it ahead of time. He builds a great ship and houses it with animals to save them from drowning.

    It's not a stretch of the imagination that these two tales have a common source. It's very likely that there was a great flood that covered the "known world" of whatever tribe that first experienced it. Their known world was probably whatever valley they lived in though and certainly didn't encompass the entire Earth. A lot of stories in the Bible (both Old and New Testament) were passed down orally for generations before they were ever written down and probably changed many times to suit the audience.
    Last edited by Darth-Lando, Jun 5, 2013
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  8. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6

    I can't see any moral lesson in the story of Noah's Ark other than that God is a murderous, vindictive and petty tyrant. But that's how he's portrayed throughout the Old Testament, so at least the story is consistent in that regard.
    V-2 and anakinfansince1983 like this.
  9. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    Maybe not Noah Ark in particular, but numerous Bible stories seem to carry an overall message of some sort in keeping with moral views like those of the Ten Commandments. The purpose of the Bible like other religious texts is to promote good general values in people through stories based around historical events. I've nothing against it saying it's wrong to steal or kill, but that doesn't mean that the stuff it says happened actually happened or needs to be adhered to so rigidly.

    After all, Kipling wrote that the Elephant got its trunk because a Crocodile grabbed hold of its nose and stretched it. I'm willing to bet most people don't really believe that is true, and similarly I have no reason to believe every Biblical story has literal truth.
    Last edited by SithLordDarthRichie, Jun 5, 2013
  10. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    For what it's worth, the Bible does advocate killing those who violate the Fourth Commandment. I guess that means true Christians will need to go around to every Wal-Mart on Sundays and kill all the workers.

    The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15)

    It astonishes me how many people would want to follow such a horrible book.
    Last edited by timmoishere, Jun 5, 2013
  11. Darth Tunes SfC Part III Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10


    Imagine if he grabbed onto something else.
  12. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Their ears are already large, Tunes.
  13. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    When did Varouj meet an crocodile?
  14. Darth Tunes SfC Part III Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    He delivered a package that wasn't to the crocodile's satisfaction.
  15. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    The Impossible Voyage of Noah's Ark.

    Highlights:

    ... the craft [of shipbuilding] remained a prescientific art, acquired through long years of apprenticeship and experience, and disasters at sea due to faulty design were so persistent that the impetus was strong for a more scientific approach (Rawson and Tupper, p. 2). Obviously, the astronomical leap in size, safety, and skill required by Noah is far too vast for any naturalistic explanation.

    The problems are legion: feeding and watering troughs need to be the correct height for easy access but not on the floor where they will get filthy; the cages for horned animals must have bars spaced properly to prevent their horns from getting stuck, while rhinos require round "bomas" for the same reason; a heavy leather body sling is "indispensable" for transporting giraffes; primates require tamper-proof locks on their doors; perches must be the correct diameter for each particular bird's foot (Hirst; Vincent). Even the flooring is important, for, if it is too hard, hooves may be injured, if too soft, they may grow too quickly and permanently damage ankles (Klos); rats will suffer decubitus (ulcers) with improper floors (Orlans), and ungulates must have a cleated surface or they will slip and fall (Fowler). These and countless other technical problems all had to be resolved before the first termite crawled aboard, but there were no wildlife management experts available for consultation.

    ... the Lord told Noah to take two canines, two felines, two equines, two pinnipedians—one male and one female each—and put them aboard the ark. The trick is, which does our ancient zoologist choose? A male kit fox and a female Great Dane? A female lion and a male alley cat? An Eohippus and a Clydesdale? Which two individuals would possess the tremendous genetic complement that their ancestors in Eden had, to enable the many species to reappear after the flood? How could Noah tell? Creationist Dennis Wagner tells us that the original kinds degenerated through inbreeding so that their offspring would "never again reach the hereditary variability of the parent" .... Yet the unique couple aboard the ark needed the full genetic potential of the original kind, if not more, for a vast new array of climatic and geographic niches was opened up by the flood.
    Speaking of a hypothetical group of six or eight animals stranded on an island, King says, "Such a small number could not possibly reflect the actual allelic frequencies found in the large mainland population" (p. 107). What, then, of the single pair on the ark?

    Etc. etc. etc. etc.
  16. Son of a Bith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    star 4
  17. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    Has everyone seen this?
    Rogue_Ten likes this.
  18. Darth Tunes SfC Part III Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
  19. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    I turned it off after about 5 minutes. I can't stand those fundies who refuse to see reason and logic.
    Son of a Bith likes this.
  20. Son of a Bith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    star 4
    I'm feeling that same urge... trying to last longer, but it's like giving myself a paper cut.

    "There's no emprical proof for evolution."

    Whoooboy. Trying to be respectful, but.... whoooboy.

    Edit: Yeah, I've tried to have conversations with these types of people. Tried.

    It's important to note that not all believers are like these nutters. Sadly, though, they do exist in large numbers.
    Last edited by Son of a Bith, Jun 5, 2013
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  21. PRENNTACULAR VIP

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2005
    star 6
    I mean, I don't believe in the historicity of the Bible. And there's absolutely some ****ed up stuff in there. But I'm kind of tired of the OMG THE BIBLE IS A TERRIBLE BOOK WHY WOULD ANYBODY GET MORAL ADVICE FROM THERE schtick. There's some good stuff, and some bad stuff. You can point out the logical or moral problems of a piece of ancient literature without making broad general statements which are only half way true and not very helpful.
  22. epic Ex Mod / RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 1999
    star 7
    If everyone regarded it as a piece of ancient literature, I don't think anyone would really have too much of an issue with the Bible at all.
  23. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
    Agreed. I'd have much less of a problem with the bible if people appreciated it for what it is... an ancient book written by men who had a very limited understanding of the enormous world they lived in. There are actually some pretty worthwhile passages that are interesting reading. It's just not a handbook for life and the world written by God him/her/itself, and i think some peoples' belief that it is, is where the negative opinions about the book come from.
    Last edited by harpuah, Jun 5, 2013
    Bob Octa, Son of a Bith, V-2 and 3 others like this.
  24. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Yeah, the Bible is fiction, and poorly written fiction at that. It has no structure, its characters are painfully one-dimensional, and it makes unsubstantiated claims about the history of the world and the universe.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  25. PRENNTACULAR VIP

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2005
    star 6
    Well when we start talking about "poorly written" or whatever, we've just arguing about taste. So it's completely objective. But there are certainly some parts of the Bible I've found to be beautifully written/moving, even if I don't agree with the world view they present.
    Last edited by PRENNTACULAR, Jun 5, 2013
    Bob Octa likes this.
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