Well, I've been here for 9 years. I may leave eventually, but it won't be within the next few weeks, I can promise you that. Now, I have about one million things to respond to (aka at least 7) and I'm not going to stay up until 2 or 3 am again tonight because I have appointments to keep tomorrow. This is partially my own fault, as I have engaged in, perhaps, to many lines of thought, here, though I'm going to go in for another one to ask a question of the group: Fear of death, yes. Fear of what comes after death, also yes, though those aren't enough, imo, to make one believe. It plays a part, though. Hope is another reason. If this life is all there is, minus the grace and forgiveness and love that comes from God, then this is a sad and terrible world, but it's all for naught, anyway. Which is where I find my question(s), of atheists: If there is no God, what is the meaning of life? Since, eventually, because of entropy, the universe will completely die out, why does anything matter?And why not do anything to get what you want now? In light of the end of existence, morality seems like a foolish game, blocking the way for pleasure, which seems like the only thing that could really matter in this scenario. I genuinely would like to know what you believe in this area. Thank you. You're looking at the wrong list. This is more a list of "how do I know they were telling the truth?" than a list of how do I know this is historically reliable. That said, you're exactly wrong. Everything on this list is a verifiable fact. Read the books. All of these things are true about what is included in the Bible and their lives. The idea of this list is to show that it's not something a group of people could get together and make up. It doesn't happen this way. And really the clincher is 10. So, these guys were all part of this giant conspiracy, but they wouldn't tell the truth when tortured and killed? It's one thing with someone who doesn't know what they believe is wrong to die for it... like I could see you thinking I have just been convinced that this stuff is true, but I am not actually aware that it isn't... but these guys made it up, you would say. They made it up so that they could live the rest of their lives being persecuted, having little, and being tortured, imprisoned, and killed for it. They left the ideas of them being gifted through their own blood salvation, to leaving it open to anyone.. why? divergent details are not conflicting details. But honestly, if all that stuff you wrote someone actually said to me, and then they were tortured and killed and wouldn't take back his story... I would be inclined to think there very well might be a dragon in his garage. Plus, Sam says it too? He invited me to go to his garage and look, before he died? I mean, I would go to his garage and look, at least. That would be pretty compelling. You totally missed the point. That was not an argument for God; that was an explanation of why I posted a bunch of lists. It was to show that the argument is vast and extensive, and that it does not rest on a single point. Also because I was asked to show evidence, so I sort of wanted to know what area we would like to focus on. Many or all of these claims are verifiable. I'm sure I can dig up evidence that at least one of the apostles was tortured or killed for his beliefs. Would you like me to find that? God is an infinite being. He always was and is and always will be. The universe is finite. It has a beginning and it will have an end. I'll respond to this better tomorrow, but this will suffice, for now: There are 27 million slaves in the world. That's more than ever. Most of them are sex slaves. Many of them are in western civilizations. There are laws against this in many of the countries it takes place in. How civilized is the world? Goodnight, yall. I'll be back for more tomorrow.