God On Trial

Ahi hay Lilitu!

 

*standing ovation and round of applause*

BRAVISSIMO!!!!

Tempted to put that in my sig, Jamiebacca.

XOX anakin_girl!

(Re: Satan) I believe he is an actual being, but I also believe that where WE are concerned, he's more of a concept.

Not to flame, but this is the kind of a wishy-washy non-answer almost like one is too embarrasssed to admit your fear of the Lucifer Beelzebub! !

The idea that if one isn't worshipping your god they must be worshipping your devil is the epitome of how narrow minded Christianity can be.

Bang-on SofK! Christians don't seem to realize that not all faiths are this paranoid, that it's not about fear.

Talk about the 'dark side'!

For the record Anikin girl when they did burn real witchs on stakes, that was not Jesus way of doing things, it was wrong even if they took power from the demons themselves and worshiped Satan to kill them.

Blue Jedi, I'm only curious. Which part of 'witches do not worship Satan' did you not understand the first time around?

I say this because there will be a single moment in time, coming in the future when Jesus judges every soul on the planet as I mentioned in the above post.

Good thing I kept the Ghostbuster's phone number handy. (I'm sorry, mods, I couldn't keep that one in!)

 

Jamiebacca

I guess first you have accept that Satan and the demons actually exist.

And there is a difference between someone who calls themselves a witch, dables in some Wiccan stuff but NEVER draws power from the demons or Satan.

It's the same for christians they can say they are christians and beleive in God but they never draw power from his Holy Spirit in there lives. We have the fakes in both camps.

Then there are the real spirtistic persons these actually use the dark power of the demons, and this is no joke, it's real. They can be men or women. And you can call them whatever you want, the bible calls them "practicers of spiritism".

Galations 5:19-21 & Revelation 22:15.

I know people that have seen some strange stuff and they weren't on any drugs, they were in a perfect frame of mind.

In fact one person who really never beleived in God told me "When I saw this stuff, I knew Evil existed in the spirit realm, so I knew the other side (Good) had to exist too."

Some think this is a big joke, well if you do I hope you never have to deal with it.

 

It's the same for christians they can say they are christians and beleive in God but they never draw power from his Holy Spirit in there lives. We have the fakes in both camps.

Oh, so what you're saying is that those of us who don't worship Satan or believe in a devil are just "fake" witches or Wiccans because all "real" witches are Satan-worshippers?

Blue Jedi, I'm only curious. Which part of 'witches do not worship Satan' did you not understand the first time around?

You said it, Jamiebacca.

BTW--your last quote made "Quotable quotes" in my bio.

 

Is anyone here familiar with the story of Lillith?

Vaguely. There are also stories of some sort of vampire that was thrown out of the garden and ate babies. Unless we're going to see some form of conformation of that, I don't believe it. What would be the point of say, editing such a passage out of Genesis (assuming such a passage could exist)?

 

anakin_girl

I don't know you or what you do, as in your own words you call yourself a witch, I really don't know how far you take it.

But you know.

And hopefully whatever you do as a Wiccan is harmless stuff. It seems from your previous comments that generally you are a good person.

Again I don't know.

 

If you will read Arriss' excellent post in the Wiccan thread, where she explains our basic principles far better than I could, you'll see that Wicca is a positive religion. Anyone who claims to be Wicca and is practicing the dark arts is the same type of person who claims to be Christian and blows up abortion clinics because God said to.

 

anakin_girl

So you don't agree with the practice of as you call them the "dark arts".
Thats good.
But how does a person know when somebody says they are a witch that they don't practice them. Usaually they wouldn't, so there would be some preconcieved idea's.

Also do you know any Wiccans that practice the "dark arts"?

 

Hey Blue. Some people are dumb. Do you know any people like that?

 

Blue_Jedi:

True Wiccans believe in the rule of three--whatever energy you send out, good or evil, comes back three times. So why would anyone in their right mind send out negative energy?

Do I know any Wiccans who practice the dark arts? No, because they're not really Wiccan.

Also, the reason there are so many preconceived notions is because Christians in previous times have put those notions there and therefore modern-day Christians believe them.

 

anakin_girl

So there could be false Wiccans practicing the "dark arts" then?

If, yes sounds reasonable as there are false christians too.

 

Christianity and neo-paganism aren't compatable.

 

Christianity and neo-paganism aren't compatable.

Enlighten us, please.




Don't leave me.
Don't ignore me.
Don't kill me!

 

Must I really explain myself? It's quite obvious why. I can't help but feel that I'm being goaded for a response.

Worship of nature, et cetera is simply not compatable with Christianity. It is blasphemeous and idol worship to worship nature.

I know you knew this, JFT.

 

Who cares if it's compatible with Christianity?

 

Worship of nature, et cetera is simply not compatable with Christianity. It is blasphemeous and idol worship to worship nature.

Having reverence for God's creation sounds like the way to go to me.

But I have to agree with SoK on this.




Don't leave me.
Don't ignore me.
Don't kill me!

 

The reason it matters is because there are people who try to believe both simultaneously. People are free to believe what they want, certainly, but to some of us it matters whether or not a set of beliefs can be held consistently.

- Worship of a God that wants us to put Him first.

- Worship of nature, God's creation.

The two are incompatible.


Edit: To address the question of whether paganism is equivalent to Satanism, I don't think it is -- but it doesn't have to be equivalent to be a bad idea. If Satan is real (and I believe he is, though the recognize the image of a man with a pitchfork and red pajamas is a useful fiction), then he could encourage non-Satanic beliefs that still damage one's relationship with God.

Paganism, for instance, often emphasizes the rule of "do no harm;" while that rule is pretty good, it's still a lower standard than the active love taught by Christ. It further creates a reliance on nature when nature can be fickle and is ultimately useless once we've shuffled off our mortal coils.

And I'm not picking on paganism. Some otherwise Christian schools of thought can be reduced to salvation by works. Certain core beliefs may be spot-on -- such as the Incarnation and the Resurrection -- but if grace is absent, then I believe the point is missed entirely.

 

Having reverence for God's creation sounds like the way to go to me.

I agree with Jifty here.

And I don't worship nature. I worship a Supreme Being that has a male and a female counterpart. (One of my biggest problems with Christianity is the members of the Trinity are all male and there's no one there for us ladies.) I have a deep awe and reverence for nature.

DM: If you are going to make a blanket statement, asking you to back it up is not "goading".

 

anakin_girl, the Trinity is not "all male." Only in the Incarnation does gender really come into things at all; mature Christians recognize that God the Father is neither male nor female, but that referring to Him as "Father" (and "Him") is a useful metaphor -- a way for us to relate to that which is hard to relate, a Being who is infinite and timeless and yet somehow personal.

Whether "Mother" would be just as useful is perhaps a question for another time. God Incarnate (Jesus) used "Father" instead of "Mother." At the least, I'm just following a convention He could have chosen arbitrarily; but it is possible that the term gets at some aspect of the First Person of the Trinity that "Mother" might miss. In other words, Jesus might have had a good reason for the choice.

The Holy Spirit is more nebulous; the Spirit is not the part of God to which we pray but the part which motivates us to pray.

(U2's Bono has a tendency of feminizing the Holy Spirit in his songs, and I can see the rationale for it.)

At any rate, I wouldn't let a useful metaphor dissuade you from Christianity.

But nor would I be so strict about what I want God to be (two parts, Father and Mother) that I leave no room for what God could reveal about God's own nature (three parts, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

 

God Incarnate (Jesus) used "Father" instead of "Mother."

Well, He already had an earthly mother.

Unless...

Jesus had two mommies?!




Seriousness now.

I think the two could be compatable, because whether you see the Trinity in male or female form shouldn't take anything away from it. On top of that, having a deep respect of God's creation seems to be the ultimate way to worship God.




Don't leave me.
Don't ignore me.
Don't kill me!

 

That is not appropriate here.

 

in Judaism, I was tought that Lilith was the first woman, before Eve. She was Adam's first honey, if you will.

But she was declared not good for Adam because she was subservant and she liked to be on top during intercourse. A sign of how she took womanhood.

It's a pretty funny story... and erotic, in my opinion.

 

My wife is Wiccan, and she has problems with the "male" perspective that's so prevalent in Christianity and other religions.

I think that's a pretty lame excuse myself.

 

Why? I am also Wiccan, and I agree 100 percent with your wife.

What's so lame about it? Christianity is a patriarchal religion. Always has been.

Someone I doubt you'd think it was lame if the Deity was referred to with the female pronoun and if all the major prophets in Christianity were females.

 

- Worship of a God that wants us to put Him first.

- Worship of nature, God's creation.

The two are incompatible

Not if God is nature itself.

/Z