Good Choice of Words

Anakin: From the moment I met you all those years ago there hasn't been a day when I haven't thought of you.

Anakin couldn't stop thinking about her when she wasn't with him. And after her death it was the same way.

Anakin: And now that I'm with you I'm in agony.

Being with Padme eventually caused him pain, as revealed in ROTS.

Anakin: The thought of not being with you, I can't breathe.

This may have to do with Vader being confined to that suit, she is not around and he can no longer breathe on his own.

Padme: I can't we can't its just not possible.

Padme knew that their was no future for their relationship. But she had the hope that it would.

Anakin: Padme anything is possible listen to me.

Anakin believes that he can make anything work, regardless of the situation.

Padme: No you listen, we live in a real world come back to it.

I believe Anakin doesn't always see the consequences of his actions(even though he will in the future).
Anakin also has a problem listening to others no matter what they say or what advice they give to him. The only person he ever listened to was Palpatine.

Padme: If you follow your thoughts to conlusion, it will take us to a place we can not go...

Anakin did follow his thoughts in ROTS, and he wanted Padme to join him as he ruled the galaxy, and she could not come with him as she stated in ROTS on Mustafar.


This stuff gives me the shivers

 

Exactly. This stuff is clarly intentional and links to everything that happens in ROTS. Its a clear foresight into what happens when Anakin becomes "man in suit".

This also links to the convrsation they have in ROTS on the balcony - "You mean love has blinded you...."

So it all works on that level. But I have to say that the dialogue you posted from AOTC makes me cringe more than shiver. I guess its purposefully very unstubtle but I just feel that the dialogue is very poor in this part. Stuff like "I wish I could just wish away my feelings" makes me gasp at the lack of skill in the writing. But like I say, at the same time you can see why it is this way and what is being implied.

 

"Evil will triumph when good men do nothing!"

Bad things will happen to good people even when there are no attachments involved. Spider-Man lost his Uncle Ben because he unwittingly let the robber get away, Anakin couldn't save his mom since he took Obi-wan's advice of letting his "dreams pass in time", the Jedi spent 20 years doing nothing while the Sith tears the galaxy apart, and Luke lost his aunt and uncle because he spent so much time with Obi-wan. Its true that death is inevitable but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't care about the living because letting go of people would be more selfish than to hold on to them. You'd be giving the impression that you don't care about anyone and they will take offense to that.

Non-attachments leads to neglect and to resentment (which is based on anger and you know what path anger takes us) so that wouldn't be healthy either.

 

Very 'planet of the apes'ish.

 

It really spoiled the drama of the scene for me

LOL! Ironically those lines were one of the few things I liked about AOTC.

 

I think this comes down to semantics. I agree - there are times when you have to act - you have to fight evil. But my point is that you have to fight for the right reasons. If you are fighting because you are attached then you will not be fighting for the right things and most of the time, not be doing what you should be. Then of course, there are moments where you shouldnt pass - be it becaue it isnt right in the moment (Luke vss Vader in ROTJ) or because you simply because you arent able to do anything and could make matters worse (Luke vs Vader in TESB).

Im not talking about not caring here PMT99. Im talking about being compassionate and loving everyone and everything. Thats what a Jedi should do. But they cannot became attached to things. Again, I think your defintion of attachment is what we're debating here. But if you look over the quotes I posted you will see that Lucas views attachment as being about feelings of greed which is the way of the Sith. Put basically, its not just about caring about others, being attached means that you care about yourself, i.e. you dont want to lose something because of your own needs and desires.

 

Each to their own!

I just think that when all your Jedi comrades are being butchered around you, when your girl and best friend is in danger and when you are at the brink of a war that will devastate the galaxy, the last thing you would/should do is start joking around! It just killed the drama for me - well, that and Threepio's one liners!

But, hey - all the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own points of view....


Im pretty sure i'm right in this instance though!

 

Watching tesb today, and part of Vader's taunts to Luke during the battle in the carbon freezing chamber:

Vader: Only your hate can destroy me


Very ironic, as it was Luke's love that redeemed the man once called Anakin Skywalker

 

Indeed - in fact, it was love that destroyed Darth Vader.

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Qui Gon (regarding training Anakin): I will do what I must, Obi Wan.

Obi Wan (regarding destroying Anakin): I will do what I must.

Just shows how Anakin went from being the saviour to such a great threat and how this altered what the Jedi had to do.

 

YODA: Young Skywalker's fate will be decided later. [TPM]

And his fate was decided later:

PALPATINE: And you, young Skywalker, we shall watch your career with great interest.

These are also fate-sealers:

- "Ruminations" sequence, where Anakin stands in the same place that Yoda made the pronouncement, for the last time.

- Submission to Palpatine in his office.

- Thwarting Palpatine at the close of ROTJ, where he chooses to conquer his Dark Side and balance the Force.

 

Great catch on the Ruminations scene. I missed that one.

 

But how can you be thinking of yourself when you're trying to save the people you love? I think Lucas is just confusing the matters of the heart because 1) the world is not so caring nor compassionate and 2) he hasn't been with a woman since his wife left him after he completed ROTJ. Anakin is simply greedy since he complains about "wanting more" than he's already got and the more he embraced the Dark Side, the less he thought about helping Padme. Attachments can go both ways because both the Jedi and the Sith frown on having personal feelings to people and if it puts the Jedi at risk of turning to the Dark Side, then it can also put the Sith at risk of giving up the Dark Side such as what Anakin did for Luke when he took out the Emperor and sacrificed himself in the process.

 

Can we PLEASE get off this topic..???!!!!!!

I bought this thread up after a long period of inactivity, and now you've pounced on the same tired issue A WHOLE MONTH later.

Ridiculous ad hominem.

I can't believe you'd use something like that in your line of argument.

 

But attachment is when you are attached to something and thus act on that due to your greed in wanting to keep hold of it. If you love unconditionally without attachment then you simply care about others - not yourself. That was the situation with Vader. There was no greed at all. He savd Luke because he loved him unconditionally - and he did so inspite of what it would mean for him.

Sith hve attachments too. In fact, they live for their attachments. The Emperor was attacked to his power, his positon and in many ways to Anakin/Vader. It was the same for Vader. The reason no Sith have any feelings of love for people, with or without attachments, is because they care solely about themselves. In Anakins case however, it was his attachment to Padme that turned him. But when he became a Sith, not even she remained his priority - he became lustful for more power.

Attachments, no matter how you look at it, are as much (if not more so) about desiring that which you are attached to for yourself than it is for caring about the person you are attached to. Thats where the fear sets in. You worry about losing your attachment so you become misguided and try to keep hold of it at the expense of others. That is why Jedi cannot have attachments. It clouds their judgement. It leads them to the dark side.

Luke redeemed his father by letting go of his his attachments. he didnt stop loving his father or believing him. He just let go of his desire to redeem him and let go of his own life so he would not do the wrong thing. This act of selfless unconditional love is what made Vader come to his senses and he thus acted in kind.

 

Selected Lines from The Phantom Menace

Another crucial interpretation of this. It can hardly be incorrect, given where this dialogue takes place (i.e. right at the start):

In 1999, we were all "padawan learners" watching the new narrative / "Living Force" unfold. Qui-Gon was cautioning us to not focus on the future (OT) at the expense of the moment (PT).

PADME: I was glad to have met you, Anakin.
ANAKIN: I was glad to meet you, too.

Sad when contrasted with their PT-based fates. But happy when considerd in broader saga terms.

QUEEN AMIDALA: We are sure her heart goes with you.

Padme's heart goes with Anakin, even in death. Padme is also saying this as the Queen and using the "we" pronoun, as Palpatine does repeatedly in TPM. The personae are bound together in unity. The Queen and Padme are one, so she is expressing her complete love / affection for Anakin.

YODA: Hard to see, the Dark Side is.

Touche, Master Yoda.

YODA: See through you, we can.

He says the Dark Side is hard to see, but apparently has no problem seeing through Anakin -- is this a sign of Yoda's and the Jedi's contradictory nature? Threepio also represents Anakin in the PT, and in TPM we can actually "see through" him.

PALPATINE: Stay here, where it's safe!

The Sith Lord in disguise saying this to Padme! Flash forward to AOTC: Padme comes back to Coruscant and her ship explodes. Coruscant becomes more and more dangerous over time -- ironic, as it's the Jedi's own backyard. If there's no peace and justice on Coruscant, what does that tell us about the galaxy?

QUI-GON: Stay close to me and you'll be safe.

An ominous indication of Anakin's fate after Qui-Gon dies. But also a metaphorical statement concerning Qui Gon's philosophy: if Anakin can "stay close" to it, he'll be safe.

ANAKIN: Qui-Gon, sir, I don't want to be a problem.
QUI-GON: You won't be, Ani.

But Anakin becomes a huge problem: he becomes Darth Vader. Though he also becomes part of the solution when he saves Luke and betrays Darth Sidious to his death. If Qui-Gon had lived, the "good friend" of Anakin Skywalker might never have died. Is this also the first time Qui-Gon calls him "Ani"? This perhaps represents a softening in his approach. Qui-Gon begins to fill in the parental void left by the departure from his mother. Obi-Wan never addresses him this way.

YODA: Qui-Gon's defiance I sense in you. Need that, you do not.

That's precisely what Obi-Wan needed. But he clearly had less of it than Qui-Gon. Taking a seat on the Council was something Qui-Gon resisted. When Yoda makes contact with Qui-Gon, he begins to realise the error of his Order's ways.

ANAKIN: What'll happen to me now?

What, indeed?

OBI-WAN: The Council have granted me permission to train you. You will be a Jedi, I promise.

Just as Obi-Wan seems to defy the Council, he also falls straight back in line: the Council have "granted" their "permission", but Qui-Gon was going to guide Anakin anyway, wasn't he? And, if Anakin was merely being guided and not formally trained, he wouldn't have been bound by the Code and could have formed normal relationships. This bizarre reversal of fortune will have dire consequences. But Anakin really will be a Jedi when all is said and done: he "returns" in ROTJ, fulfilling his role at last.

Selected Lines from Attack of the Clones

 

How about all the comments regarding height in the saga?

Lucas himself isn't a big guy and the theme of small people being the heroes seems to be a strong theme in Star Wars.

A few comments:

"I guess you're too short to run away on us" - Luke to Artoo
"Aren't you a little short for a storm trooper" - Leia to Luke
"General Grievous - you're shorter than I expected" - Anakin to Grievous
"Short help is better than no help at all Chewie" - Han to Chewie

In the films, Artoo turns out to be the hero many a time. He is Lucas' self proclaimed favourite character as well. Luke is regarded as being small but he turns out to be the saviour of the galaxy. The line by Anakin to Grievous highlights how many of the villains are tall forbodding beings - and possibly forshadows how he as Vader is very tall as well. And then we have the ewoks - central to the theme of lesser lifeforms overcoming the powerful and saving the day.

So is this theme one that Lucas brought into the saga due to his own height? He once had Luke and co as small people and as we see in Willow, it was a theme he used yet again. I like how shortness is kind of a running joke throughout the saga and how it turns out that its the short people that save the day in the end! The theme - it doesnt matter what you are...you can still achieve greatness.

 

Great stuff!

Here's another key line:

"Judge me by my size, do you?" - Yoda to Luke

And wasn't Luke meant to be a small being originally -- like a Hobbit or Ewok?

I really like how you factored Lucas' height into it, which only strengthens your case, in my opinion. Lucas has said there is more of him in SW than he can admit, and time and time again (moreso with each passing day, in fact), I see a greater and greater autobiographical fabric.

I actually had one in the works on "friends" and was going to include it in my last post. The problem is, in spite of how big the list is, I probably missed a few! But the worst thing is that I accidentally copied-and-pasted over it! Doh! However, lines that use "pal", "friend", "old friend" and "good friend" are spread across the entire saga. Anakin calls Threepio a "great pal", Palpatine addresses the Jedi as his "friends", he suggests an "old friend" for Padme's security force (the "old friend" is Obi Wan, but he's really suggesting Obi Wan because Anakin is his padawan -- sneaky!), there's Obi Wan saying goodbye to his "old friend" in ROTS, there's Sidious blasting Yoda down and deeming him his "little green friend", there's Threepio wistfully telling Artoo to "take care, my little friend" and there are lines between Palpatine and Luke in ROTJ about friends.

If we're to stick with your autobiographical slant (and, like I said, I think SW is very autobiographical), then maybe these constant references to friends are a reminder of how important other people are to us -- in giving us stability, in helping us along and in building us Empires! In Lucas' case, he has had many friends / helpers along the way, and the relationships he's forged with some are some of the greatest and long-lasting in cinema (think of him and John Williams, for example). The saga isn't piecemeal; Lucas realises the importance of everything he's put within it, I think.

 

Yoda - of course! How could I forget that?! That is probably the strongst part of the theme in the saga! The little insignificant guy sitting on the side of the road who the hero dismisses but later has to respect.

As for your point about Star wars being autobiagraphical - absolutely. George Lucas in Love maybe a comedy and by and large fictional - but it really does strike accord with how Star Wars came about. The saga is full of elements that relate directly to Lucas' life. Too many to point out in one post! But to focus on your suggestion of "friends" and how they help out - that is something Lucas in real life stands by. He said in an interview that its very important to help others and give them opportunities - and through this their own success will actually make you more successful (I guess this success alo refers to happiness and Lucas believes that compassion and love are the route to being happy and fulfilled). So yeah, Star Wars is clearly about how important friends are and Lucas knows he wouldnt be where he is today if it wasnt for his own friends. And through his life you can see how he helped them out - be it giving them directorial chances or simply stepping in and offers support or advice.

EDIT: it may also be of note to add how Lucas once fell out with his friend and mentor Francis Ford Coppola and how Lucas went on to get great success where as Coppola kind of lost his footing in the film world - Obi Wan/Anakin anyone? "You were my brother Anakin! I loved you". Lucas, it is said, did feel betrayed by Coppola on many occassions. This perhaps reflects the idea that if you are a bad friend and betray those close to you, you wont be successful. Help your friends and be good to them and you will be.

 

TPM:

YODA: How feel you?
ANAKIN: Cold, sir.
YODA: Afraid are you?
ANAKIN: No, sir.

ANAKIN: Qui Gon, sir, I don't want to be a problem.

ROTS:

ANAKIN: I'm overwhelmed, sir.

It seems that Anakin's boyish deference switched from the Jedi to the Sith.

 

TPM: "You catch on pretty quick."
AOTC: "I am a slow learner."

What happened?!
The Jedi happened.

 

More a case of "his abilties have made him arrogant".

 

CLIEGG: Those Tusken Raiders, they may walk like men, but they?re nothing more than vicious, mindless monsters.

He could be describing Darth Vader. It's interesting how Vader is essentially born in the Tusken camp. And he ends up wearing a mask and capturing and torturing the loved ones of a Skywalker in the middle chapter of the following trilogy.

Think also of:

ANAKIN: At last! We'll be able to capture that monster and end this war.

And:

OBI-WAN: He's more machine now than man. Twisted and evil.