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Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Kabers, Nov 25, 2013.

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  1. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    In the novel Rebel Dawn, when Chewie tells Han about that incident, he responds with "Pulled a lightsaber, huh? I didn't think anybody still had those."
  2. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    I don't like the excuse that "Qui-Gon was old". We see Dooku in action in both AOTC and ROTS at around age 70-80 and he seems to be fine against younger adversaries. Anakin simply out duels him in ROTS but he doesn't seem to tire because of his age. The ultimate point is that Maul was a more skilled swordsman. Being a Jedi Master is about meditation, discipline and mastering the Force. Being a Sith apprentice is about essentially being the ultimate assassin.
  3. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    Yeah, the idea that Jedi lose their powers as they age held water in the OT, but the PT kind of blew that out of the water.

    Regarding Anakin and Luke's respective ability to resist the dark side - I think Anakin was driven by a desire to control all of those things which could work against him in a way that Luke wasn't so the lure of the dark side was naturally stronger for Anakin as that is its ultimate promise.
  4. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Isn't that contradicted by Yoda and Palpatine, though? Both of them were extremely old but still powerful. Beyond Vader's insult, I never got the sense that one's facility with the Force was tied to age. I mean, Yoda says we aren't "this crude matter", so I always took it that as long as one lives, one's strength with the Force remains intact.
  5. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    Yeah, true, but Yoda and Palpatine don't get it on with lightsabres in the OT. Perhaps I should've said 'powers with a lightsabre'. GL has said that the ANH duel is slow and laboured because one guy was old and the other half machine. That kind of rang true until we saw the old timers doing back flips and such in the PT.
    Last edited by MOC Yak Face, Nov 28, 2013
  6. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    We'll, Obi-Wan was likely out of practice. Living alone in the desert would naturally cause his skills to deteriorate.
  7. Habukaz Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Hello!
    I was wondering is there any information about what Jedis do all day when they don't go on missions to save the galaxy?
  8. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    (Mod action: Merging above query with Questions thread, and changing thread title)
  9. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I think the novels mention training, and meditation, as a major part. There's also Jedi jobs that don't involve missions- lightsaber instructor, archivist, and so forth.
  10. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Personally, I think they just sit around glancing sideways at each other and saying, "Hmm..."
    Sarge likes this.
  11. Little Mike Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Maybe they just challenge each other to knife games and bottle it because they've got lightsabers

    Then it's Jedi Bingo at 5 o'clock
  12. The Star Wars Archivist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2013
    star 3
    1. Darth Maul was one of the fiercest Sith warriors to ever live and underwent gruelling (but very effective) training. When Qui-Gon first fought him on Tatooine, it was clear he had not faced a warrior of Darth Maul's skill. Maul used every little weakness in their battle to finally kill Qui Gon. Not to mention he was proficient in Juyo, one of the most devastating and aggressive lightsaber forms out there.
    2. Yes many people have noticed.
    3. Anakin joined the Sith to protect what he loved, but he did the opposite. Luke, was not fighting for his own desires, but rather, for the good of the galaxy. He was fighting to protect others and not just himself. It was this selflessness that separated him from Vader, not to mention his stubborn resistance.
    4. Half of Anakin's examples that you mentioned were done when he was a Sith. Luke was clearly the better Jedi, he stood for the beliefs of the Order and is the perfect example of a good Jedi.
  13. Kabers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    1. How many Jedi has Maul killed before he fought Qui-Gonn, and how many has he fought since then?

    2. From what i understand, Governor Moff Tarkin was Vader's superior in ANH, but if Vader was Palpatine's Sith apprentice, shouldn't he be Palpatine's right-hand?

    3. I'm having a hard time piecing together Palpatine's grand scheme: it has been said that Dooku and Maul were both just placeholders for Anakin, so did he already know about Anakin and already know that Maul and Dooku were going to let him down? Was he so certain that Anakin would survive the Clone Wars for as long as he did? And this thing about order 66, who programmed that into the Clones, how did Dooku pull this all off, where did Maul and Sifo-Dyios fit into all of this? Did the Clones all know Palpatine's secret? Nothing seems to be adding up here

    4. Do Dooku and Maul know that Palpatine is Sidious? And if they do know, why do they know? What would Palpatine hope to gain by letting his pawns know his secret, especially since there was a chance that they would be caught and interrogated? In Anakin's case, he probably had to know, if Palpatine's plan was to work. But what about Grievous and Ventress, do they know too?

    5. I read somewhere that Dooku had lost faith in the Jedi order at one point, but his behavior in the CGI series implies that he had some sort of deep-seeded hatred for them all, where did that come from?

    6. Is there a Light-Side of the force equivalent to the Nightbrothers and Nightsisters?

    7. Since Qui-Gonn was essentially raised by Dooku, is there a chance that he could have turned to the Dark-Side? And if Maul ever met Dooku, do you think the latter would be furious about the former killing his "son".
  14. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    1) Two that I know of for sure: Anoon Bondara and Darsha Assant. But he has fought others prior to that. Just remember that you are asking EU-related questions, which is frowned upon in the Saga forum.

    2) Tarkin was in charge of the Death Star project itself, which makes anyone aboard it under his jurisdiction regardless of their actual rank.

    3) Plagueis was the one responsible for using the Force to inseminate Shmi. When the Jedi discovered Anakin and it was revealed that he was the product of Force-guided conception, Palpatine realized just who he was dealing with. He then formulated a plan to take Anakin as his own apprentice when the time was right.
    3a) Order 66 was one of a series of contingency orders given to the Grand Army. There was nothing secret about it, at least as far as the clones were concerned.
    3b) Sifo-Dyas perceived that the day would soon come when the Republic would need an army. He contacted the Kaminoans to see what it would take to order a clone army. Palpatine found out about this and ordered his new apprentice Dooku to kill Sifo-Dyas, but told him to let the order for the army stand, since the Sith could make use of the army one day. Dooku then erased Kamino from the Jedi archives, then provided the funding necessary for the army's creation as well as recruiting Jango to be the clone template.

    4) Dooku knew of Palpatine's identity for certain, and it is highly likely that Maul did too. As for Ventress, I doubt it, since she was more of a pawn of Dooku's than of Palpatine's. Grievous definitely did not know.

    5) Getting into more EU territory here. I would suggest reading Dark Rendezvous, Darth Plagueis and Labyrinth of Evil for more information about Dooku.

    6) Not that I know of.

    7) Unknown.
  15. Kabers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    1. Maul killed that many Jedi beforehand? How did Sidious keep him a secret for that long?

    3. So Anakin was, in fact, not a prophecy called to order, but instead, was just a Sith plot? Whoo, sure glad Qui-Gonn didn't live to figure that out.

    4. I repeat, why do they know? With all that was happening at the times, wouldn't it have been better to keep them in the dark, what would he have to gain by letting Maul Dooku in the inner circle?
  16. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Force Dodgeball and then some CoD afterwards.
  17. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6

    1) Upon investigation of those deaths, the Jedi did not have enough information to determine who or what was responsible. Maul covered his tracks well, I guess.

    3) No, Anakin was indeed a prophecy from ancient times. It's just that Plagueis/Palpatine accelerated that prophecy in order to pervert it to their own wishes. Palpatine intended Anakin to be the ultimate insult to the Jedi: the one they thought would come to restore balance would actually be the one to bring about their destruction.

    4) They know because they do. As Palpatine couldn't very well train Maul without letting Maul see his face, it makes perfect sense for Maul to know. For Dooku especially, it was important for him to know Sidious' identity. The entire purpose of the Clone Wars was for Palpatine to control one side and Dooku control the other, and the poor Jedi were caught in the middle.
  18. Kabers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    1. Which is the Emperor's real name: Palpatine or Sidious? I'm leaning towards Palpatine, but i'm so sure anymore, Maul was Darth Maul's real name after all

    2. Of all of Sidious' apprentices, why was Dooku the only one who could mimic his Sith Lightning ability? Why couldn't Maul and Vader do it too?

    3. What exactly makes Vader superior to Maul and Dooku, besides the whole "Chosen One" deal? I mean, think about it, Maul killed a revered Jedi Master; Dooku started a war that led to the deaths of hundreds of Jedi, became the leader of an entire movement, trained a Sith assassin and a fearsome cyborg General who could take on any Jedi, and he went head-to-head with Master Yoda himself, plus he was the mentor of the Revered Jedi that Maul killed, as well as a former revered Jedi himself. What exactly makes Darth Vader better than either of them?
  19. Kabers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    1. Which is the Emperor's real name: Palpatine or Sidious? I'm leaning towards Palpatine, but i'm so sure anymore, Maul was Darth Maul's real name after all

    2. Of all of Sidious' apprentices, why was Dooku the only one who could mimic his Sith Lightning ability? Why couldn't Maul and Vader do it too?

    3. What exactly makes Vader superior to Maul and Dooku, besides the whole "Chosen One" deal? I mean, think about it, Maul killed a revered Jedi Master; Dooku started a war that led to the deaths of hundreds of Jedi, became the leader of an entire movement, trained a Sith assassin and a fearsome cyborg General who could take on any Jedi, and he went head-to-head with Master Yoda himself, plus he was the mentor of the Revered Jedi that Maul killed, as well as a former revered Jedi himself. What exactly makes Darth Vader better than either of them?
  20. Denco Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2013
    1. From this http://starwars.com/explore/encyclopedia/characters/darthsidious/ - I would say that Palpatine
    2. I guess they could, they just did not ... Or maybe they were not so strong in the Force?
    3. If you take it this way, Dooku was more powerfull indeed - he was responsible for many deaths. But maybe if you take just him, only him - In a way, Dooku was killed by Vader.
  21. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    Palpatine is his given name (as far as we know). Sidious is his Sith name, which was assigned to him at some point. Then again, you could argue that his Sith identity was his true name (in the sense of how Vader ceased being Anakin), but let's not confuse things.

    It's probably not canon, but Maul could shoot red Force Lightning in the Phantom Menace video game, which was pretty sweet. Though, in addition to being a difficult skill to learn, it's rarely used to great effect in battle. Dooku was merely showing off, and a Palpatine was using it to slowly torture Luke. It seemed only Sidious could use it effectively in battle (like against Mace and Yoda). EU says that Vader could have used it, but his machinery prevented him.

    It's Anakin's potential. By giving into his anger just a little bit, he was able to take down Dooku, who was already proficient in the Dark Side. Anakin had already had many accomplishments in the Jedi Order to his name as well, all at a notably young age. Anakin's not necessarily more powerful, he's just the one Palpatine needs for his plan.
  22. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    Maul seemed to use the Force solely as a means of enhancing his physical combat skills - notice that he also never displays, say, telekinesis.

    And as SlashMan notes, the EU has consistently shown that you can't shoot force lightning from mechanical limbs. I think that's a bit overly-literal, but the implication does seem to be that Vader was weakened by becoming "more machine now than man".
  23. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6

    Maul Force-flung a severed battle droid at the door controls during the TPM duel.
  24. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Recently theres been a move toward making it possible- we see Vader holding what looks like a little Force Lightning in Darth Vader & the Ghost Prison.
  25. Master Mini 907 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2013
    star 3
    Vader couldn't use Sith Lightning because he would've damaged his armour and life support lke he did in ROTJ and Maul may have been able to but just didn't
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