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Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Kabers, Nov 25, 2013.

  1. Freelancer257

    Freelancer257 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2004
    A question about the Empire's attempts to retrieve the Death Star plans.

    Rogue One reinforces that the Empire will stop at nothing to prevent the plans falling into the hands of the Rebellion - they destroy the Citadel Tower on Scarif (killing many of their own forces) and Vader then kills a good number of Rebel soldiers in an attempt to prevent the plans from being handed over to the Tantive IV.

    At the beginning of ANH, more Rebels are killed in orbit over Tatooine, with at least one officer strangled by Vader. On the planet, Imperial forces destroy the sandcrawler and the moisture farm. Vader's instructions include:

    "...tear this ship apart until you've found those plans" and later "She must have hidden the plans in the escape pod. Send a detachment down to retrieve them. See to it personally, Commander. There'll be
    no one to stop us this time." Later, the stormtroopers have no hesitation in opening fire on the Falcon just before it leaves Mos Eisley and there are at least a couple of Star Destroyers in orbit.

    With all the Empire's ruthlessness in the immediate period before ANH, Imperial forces should be thoroughly combing Mos Eisley, checking every building, particularly as it's a backwater planet of no political significance. But the instant they're confronted with a locked door (where the droids are hiding), the stormtroopers basically shrug their shoulders and move on to the next building. Why is that?
     
  2. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    According to the authentic screenplay draft from March 1976 Vader didn't want to attract too much attention:

    VADER
    They must have put the tapes in the repair pod. Send a detachment down to retrieve them be subtle. Don’t attract attention… vaporize this ship. Don’t leave anything.
    Vader turns to the commander.
    The data on those tapes could prove to be most damaging. I want that stolen data destroyed at all costs. See to it personally, Commander. There will be no one to save them now.

    The way it looked to me, the Empire had already posted several MP stormtroopers to all the entry points to the Mos Eisley spaceport area (which Kenobi and Luke slipped through because Kenobi had been using a mind trick), after that controls were less thorough and the stormtroopers merely checked unlocked doors (perhaps following a city wide announcement that criminals were on the run and everyone had to lock their doors).

    Brian Daley tried to rationalize in his ANH radio drama how and where the droids were hiding. The original context (ANH draft from,January 1976) was rather simple, the droids just stayed behind in the inn were Luke and Obi-Wan had spent the night:

    BEN
    No, let’s just say we’d like to avoid any Imperial entanglements.
    Han glances toward the cantina door.
    HAN
    I’d say you’d already gotten some. Docking Bay 94 first thing in the morning.
     
    Sith Lord 2015 likes this.
  3. Gonk Droid

    Gonk Droid Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    May 7, 2017
    I love all the SW films but have never watched any of the animated stuff. I started watching the Clone Wars film yesterday and after 15 mins I had to give up! I just couldn't get into it. Should I persevere, if only to expand my knowledge of the GFFA?

    Also can someone share a link as to where I find a thread discussing this film on this site as I can't find it. I would be interested to see what the views of the SW community are.
     
  4. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    At least give the Clone War TV Series an extended look. IMHO, there is a substantial qualitative difference between the movie and the series.

    Did you search on on the Star Wars TV Forum?
     
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  5. Nibelung

    Nibelung Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Question: what was the first publication to call the Death Star's bridge the "Overbridge"?
     
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  6. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Jedi Knight Fett and Nibelung like this.
  7. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    So are there any "new" noises for Chewbacca and Artoo in The Force Awakens that aren't sourced from the OT, or more specifically ANH? Or did Artoo get any new beeps in the PT? I know Artoo got a few new warbles in ESB and in ROTJ (especially his first scene as he walks with Threepio to Jabba's palace, he sounds pretty different). But I can't think of any "new" beeps he makes in the PT. Chewie got a few new ones in ESB (mournful wail) and ROTJ (Tarzan yell swinging to the AT-ST) but not a lot and I don't hear anything new outta him in ROTS. I think when he gets shot in TFA there's a new-sounding bark that he does but I think that's about it. Artoo's few TFA beeps seem to be entirely sourced from ANH.
     
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  8. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    I think R2 makes one new beep in ROTS, when he sticks his periscope out of the droid parts on the Inivisble Hand. I'm pretty sure that's the only time he makes that series of beeps.

    As for TFA, no idea, but I don't remember hearing anything that particularly stood out as new.
     
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  9. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    On the Invisible Hand, Artoo makes an "Uh-oh" sound that I THINK was entirely new. I have yet to verify that, though.
     
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  10. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    That is entirely possible Artoo makes a new noise when the Super Battle Droids see him in ROTS. But I think, basically, we're down to any noises from Chewie or Artoo are almost entirely sourced from A New Hope or Empire. And Artoo definitely got a few new ones in ROTJ but not a lot. In fact, I'd bet you any "new" sound Artoo makes in ROTJ are all in the first walk up to Jabba's palace. Listen to Artoo's response when Threepio says "Of course I'm worried" ("new" Artoo warble that is distinct to ROTJ) "And you should be too, Lando Calrissan never returned from this awful place."

    I mean, Chewie HAS to have some new grunts in Han Solo: A Star Wars Story. I mean, he's probably going to be in about 50% of the flick, we should get something new.
     
  11. Frank T.

    Frank T. Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Is there a thread listing retcons somewhere in here?
     
  12. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012

    The topic of "retcons" has been discussed a number of times in both this forum as well as the Classic Trilogy forum. I would not look for a thread title that uses the term "retcons", however. Most of the time, these threads talk about favorite or least-favorite changes made by George.
     
  13. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Feeling surprise was wiser, Admiral Ozzel jumps out of light speed near Hoth, albeit so close that it alerts the rebels to their presence, impelling them to activate their energy shield which can withstand any bombardment. Vader calls this a clumsy move. What strategy(s) would've worked better? What advantages would Ozzel's method of surprise have over another? And why is Ozzel's plan ultimately inferior?

    I'm suspecting a better strategy would've been exiting hyperspace out of detection range and sending in squads of smaller fighters (masked by the meteor activity), but wouldn't the scopes have still picked those up in time to activate the shield and/or send out the speeders to intercept?
    I can't think of a plan that wouldn't include surprise nor alert the rebels to the Empire's presence. Unless Star Destroyers have cloaking devices (idk). Or was Ozzel so arrogant that he wanted the rebels to see his fleet exit hyperspace above them in grand fashion?

    All in all, I suppose the biggest mistake Ozzel made here was allowing the Rebels time to load and evacuate their transports. Giving them the opportunity to live to fight another day, for the most part.
     
  14. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Darned 30 minute edit limit, I meant the biggest mistake Ozzel made was allowing the Rebels the opportunity to successfully evacuate their transports. They had of course already initiated the loading process once they felt they had identified the probe droid.
    A stealthier approach would've caught them unawares, putting the transports in a more vulnerable situation.
     
  15. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Subtext Mining Whats yout specific question? Are you asking about potential alternative Admiral Ozzel's strategies that would not have gotten him killed?
     
  16. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Subtext Mining wrote

    Feeling surprise was wiser, Admiral Ozzel jumps out of light speed near Hoth, albeit so close that it alerts the rebels to their presence, impelling them to activate their energy shield which can withstand any bombardment. Vader calls this a clumsy move. What strategy(s) would've worked better? What advantages would Ozzel's method of surprise have over another? And why is Ozzel's plan ultimately inferior?

    I'm suspecting a better strategy would've been exiting hyperspace out of detection range and sending in squads of smaller fighters (masked by the meteor activity), but wouldn't the scopes have still picked those up in time to activate the shield and/or send out the speeders to intercept?
    I can't think of a plan that wouldn't include surprise nor alert the rebels to the Empire's presence. Unless Star Destroyers have cloaking devices (idk). Or was Ozzel so arrogant that he wanted the rebels to see his fleet exit hyperspace above them in grand fashion?

    RIEEKAN (indicates radar
    screen)
    With all the meteor activity in this
    system, it's going to be difficult
    to spot approaching ships.

    Had the fleet exited hyperspace outside the Alliance's tracking range (already compromised by all the meteors or asteroids in the vicinity) and ran 'silent' the Star Destroyers would have probably been mistaken as asteroids that became 'active' the moment they were in Hoth's orbit.
    This approach would have required Ozzel's patience, but IIRC the novelization suggested that morale among the Imperials was low because they had already spent so much time waiting for a good lead.

    I could also imagine that Admiral Ozzel (from the original production point of view) used the same strategy when the Imperial fleet invaded the Yavin System and drove the Alliance from its base. So I guess Vader was mad at him that he didn't use the natural camouflage advantage the Hoth System - in contrast - provided for their stealth approach.
     
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  17. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Given that the Alliance started evacuating the moment they confirmed the existence of an Imperial probe droid - and given how slow "coasting" from the edge of a star system is likely to be, the Imperials might have gotten there to find a freshly evacuated base, if they'd used that strategy.
     
  18. Keycube

    Keycube Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2009
    A few things about the gun workings in TFA have me perplexed. The subject reared its head on a modeling site I frequent (by me, admittedly), and I'd like more opinions.

    In the OT, the gun had a 2-axis system achieved by swiveling between the support arms and pivoting around the central support tube for those support arms. In TFA, that central support tube no longer has its axis "fixed" (horizontally in relation to the falcon, vertically on-screen from the gunner's position) in the scene where Finn is getting acclimated to it, but seems to operate normally when he's firing (although it's difficult to see at times). Not to mention the gun appears from "below" the gunner, as opposed to from "above" in ANH. I'm not sure what's going on there, but it kinda drives me nuts.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_OSeRxhGOY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sarFZJl3h0

    The TFA cutaway book mentions the top and bottom "caps" (for lack of a better word) that contain the guns and gun window, now rotate; which can lead to the situation in TFA, where the window is (briefly) shown to the rear of center. But even so, to have the guns appear from the "bottom" of the window, the whole gunner's station internally would have to be flipped 180 degrees, which makes no sense.

    I can only see this as either a screw-up, a reimagining for camera footage's sake (bad), or a re-engineering of the gun setup, which is also bad, but I could at least get behind if there was something to back it up...but I can't find it. Help?
     
  19. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Moving to "Got a Question" Thread
     
  20. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Yeah, and that's the benefit of the doubt you have to give both Vader and Ozzel; They didn't know the Rebels were given a head start on all of this when they all but confirmed the probe droid.
    Ozzel thought he was literally surprising them. Vader wanted a stealthier approach. But neither would have prevented the successful evacuation of the transports and the Falcon at that point.

    So yeah, to clarify, my question is; Ozzel being killed or not aside, what strategy would've worked best to prevent the successful evacuation of the transports and the Falcon? Given the Rebels had a head start, unbeknownst to the Empire.


    (I also meant to originally ask this in the OT section [face_blush] )
     
  21. alpha_particles1981

    alpha_particles1981 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 9, 2017
    In ESB how did the Millennium Falcon travel between star systems (Hoth ---> Bespin) without a working hyperdrive? Even if they were traveling at lightspeed it would take at least a few years I think.
     
    Seagoat likes this.
  22. Seagoat

    Seagoat PT and Music Section Dictator star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    SW is bad at science is the irl answer. However, in universe....

    I believe all that's said about the distance between systems is that it's "far away". In a galaxy with FTL travel that's achieved by entering a subdimension and "sublight" speed that nears light speed, that can mean anything. I think one source claims that Hoth and Bespin are 1150 ly away from each other - and it's not entirely clear how much time passes, but it's definitely not that long

    In short, the movie's answer is "try not to think about it"

    EU, however, as always, has an answer. The MF has a backup hyperdrive that's not nearly as fast as its standard one

     
  23. Snafu55

    Snafu55 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 19, 2015

    I thought the in canon explanation is that we never knew how long Luke spent training on Dagaboh/ how long it took Han and crew to travel from the asteroid field to Bespin. It could of been weeks, months, who knows years, though it's the same amount of time for each (and for them to apparently travel at sublight speed...).

    Yeah don't think about it...
     
  24. alpha_particles1981

    alpha_particles1981 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 9, 2017
    The universe, no matter where you are, follows the same scientific laws. It was, until recently, believed that black holes were a possible exception. But no, they follow the rules as well. That's why we cannot see them. My point is that it's a bit aggravating to see such a blatant disregard for even the most basic scientific laws in space opera.
     
  25. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    The thing is, it's a fictional universe from a fantasy movie. It doesn't have to follow any scientific laws. It can, and does, follow some. Not others.