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Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Kabers, Nov 25, 2013.

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  1. Lord_Anzeroth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2013
    star 4

    Completely agree. :)
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  2. Doop Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2014
    star 2
    Sorry for my uneducated question about the EU.

    Can someone summarize Kit Fistos backstory for me? Wookiepedia is like reading an entire book.
  3. Kabers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    1. I have to say, it's hard to tell what the level of abilities are for Sidious/Palpatine's apprentices

    When Darth Maul first appeared in TPM, he behaved like a mindlessly Assassin that was obedient only to Sidious and did everything he was told without question or compromise. But in The Clone Wars tv show, he was portrayed as a cunning criminal mastermind who preferred to plan first rather than just attack. His intelligence almost sort of rivaled Sidious' actually.

    As Anakin Skywalker, Darth Vader was portrayed as being a pretty good leader (in the TV shows i mean), but in every movie he appeared in as the cybernetic Sith Lord, he's been nothing but the Ubu to Sidious' Ra's Al' Ghul (a field leader who's actions are influenced by the people higher up than him). The only exception to this is TESB, where he was clearly the Big Bad.

    Count Dooku was undeniably the mastermind during his appearance in AotC and in both Clone Wars shows; he was clearly the one running things and he didn't even care who knew it.

    2. It was made pretty clear that Leia and Han didn't really like each other when they first met, which made their relationship all the more ironic when you think about it. But what was Leia's initial opinion of Luke when they first met?
    Last edited by Kabers, May 2, 2014
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  4. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    That's something the movies can't really answer.

    I think Star Wars Journal: Captive to Evil, does a good job of showing the events of ANH from Leia's point of view though. I think she grew to like Luke, and be impressed with his talents, fairly quickly.
  5. Kabers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    1. I know that I've already asked if either Dooku or Maul knew that Sidious was Palpatine, and that the answer was apparently yes. But, now i have a new question in that ball park; near as i can tell, General Grievous and Assajj Ventress both know that Dooku works for Sidious. Which begs the question, why do they know? What would Dooku have to gain by letting his goons know that he was someone else's goon? Wouldn't it have been easier to just not tell them? That way, both would believe that Dooku was the mastermind of the Clone Wars.

    2. If Ventress was a Sith lord, why didn't she have a Sith name?

    3. What's the difference between a Clone Trooper and a Stormtrooper?
  6. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    1) They knew that Dooku worked for Sidious, but not much else.

    2) Ventress wasn't a Sith.

    3) Clone Troopers are clones. Stormtroopers are mostly recruits (but with a few clones among their ranks).
  7. rdhight Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2014
    star 3
    When Dooku is talking with Poggle about the taking the Death Star plans to Coruscant, he says, "They will be safe there, with my master." He mentions the name to Obi-Wan, as well.

    I don't see Dooku being eager to admit that he has a boss, but I think in this case it is to reassure his allies. He's saying he has even more resources they don't know about. There may always be a bigger fish, but here he's saying the bigger fish is on our side too. As @timmoishere said, lots of people, such as Grievous, may well know the bald fact that Dooku works for someone named "Sidious," but they won't know the true implications.
  8. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    The goons in the Trade Federation, who joined the Separatists in between TPM & AOTC, had already dealt with Sidious before anyway. There wasn't any point making Dooku out to be something he wasn't.
  9. Lord_Anzeroth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2013
    star 4
    Maybe, maybe not :p. The way I see it, is that if the subordinates of a Sith Lord (i.e Dooku) knew that there was another Sith Lord (i.e Sidious) commanding over him, then they knew that they could not challenge both of them. More specifically, if Ventress decided to betray Dooku and try to take his place, she was propably held back by the fact that Dooku had Sidious as a Master and that she had to face them both.

    Ventress was a Sith apprentice, not a Sith Lord. When a Sith apprentice reaches the title of Darth (thus becoming a Sith Lord) his/her name changes, in order to reflect the new rank. Ventress never reached that rank, so her name remained the same.

    First of all, Clonetroopers belong to the Republic Army, while Stormtroopers belong to the Imperial Army.
    Secondly, Clonetroopers were all clones of Jango Fett and were bred to fight in Kamino for the Republic. When Sidious reformed the Republic into a Galactic Empire, he also increase the size of the army. Now, in the not-canon EU, there was a clone rebellion in Kamino, known as the Kamino uprising. A group of Kaminoans went rogue and started producing clones in order to challenge Sidious and his Empire. Boba Fett and the 501st Legion crushed the Kaminoans. Ever since that incident, Palpatine decided to use a less centralised system of Clone production, as well as the use of non-clones as soldiers of the Imperial Army.
    Therefore, the Stormtrooper corps was comprised of both non-clones and clones, the former heavily outnumbering the latter.
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  10. Troubled Mind Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2013
    Why do storm troopers or clone troopers for that matter bother wearing armour? They clearly don't protect against blaster fire.
  11. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    Modern soldiers still get shot. Why do they bother wearing body armor?

    Stormtrooper armor gets trumped by plot armor most of the time we see it, but the fact that stormtroopers can be killed hardly proves their armor is useless.
  12. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    If you've seen Batman Begins, a simple explanation exists. When Lucius Fox is showing the new Bat armor to Bruce Wayne, Bruce asks if the armor is bulletproof. Lucius responds "short of a straight shot."

    It is the unfortunate luck of every stormtrooper in the films that they were hit with a straight shot, rather than a glancing blow.
  13. Anakin's Daddy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2002
    star 4
    He didn't kill him easily. It was a long fight and Maul was younger and more aggressive. ...And probably better trained in combat.

    Not really. Who says they were the most powerful. Sideous was definitely more powerful and we don't know how powerful the previous ones were.


    Anakin had so many more temptations in front of him: He respected and had a great relationship with Palpatine. Palpatine told him there was a way to save Padme if he were to learn the Dark Side. He knew the Jedi Council was manipulating him... The list goes on. As for Luke, he had no major motives to turn.


    This is a hard one. They both accomplished a lot, however, Anakin "undid" everything most of what he had done when he was Vader. I'm going to say Luke, because if it were not for him, Anakin would not have killed the Emperor in the end.

    Because the Jedi order died at order 66, and most of the rules died with it.


    I imagine non force sensitive beings don't use them simply because they are too difficult and dangerous to use. A blaster is much easier. Grievious was just highly trained. I suppose there are exceptions to every rule.



  14. Kato Sai Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2014
    star 4
    The problem that Dooku poses by letting his apprentices know about his master, is that the Rule Two will inevitably be instituted and thus Ventress or Grevious should either be aware they will have to slay their master or they might not make it as Dark Siders.
  15. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Grievous couldn't use the Force, so his existence wouldn't pose a problem to the Rule of Two. Ventress, on the other hand, was likely being groomed as Dooku's apprentice if Palpatine was ever killed.
  16. Lord_Anzeroth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2013
    star 4
    Ventress was (groomed as) Dooku's apprentice.

    And Dooku, by letting her know that Palpatine exists and is Dooku's master, then it prevented Ventress challenging her master early, as she had to take out Palpatine as well.
  17. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    No, because if Ventress challenged Dooku and won, then she would then become Palpatine's new apprentice.
  18. Kato Sai Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2014
    star 4
    Which Ventress arch do you subscribe to? TCW where she survives and becomes a rouge bounty hunter or the arch when Anakin slays here and gets his famous scar?
  19. Lord_Anzeroth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2013
    star 4
    I go with the former, as only TCW is canon.
  20. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    I've heard people say that before the PT was released, they thought that Anakin was older than his age in ROTS when he turned to the dark side. Where did people get that impression from?
  21. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Probably from extrapolating backward some 20 years, from Sebastian Shaw's age.
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  22. rdhight Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2014
    star 3
    Well, and from Obi-Wan's "When I first met him, your father was already a great pilot." That would tend to move the timeline along a few years vs. what we see in the prequels.
    Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn likes this.
  23. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Podracers are a sort of pilot...
  24. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    That's true, and it's one of those things that technically matches up. However, when the original film was written and filmed,there was a line by Red Leader in the hangar, talking about how Red Leader had met Luke's father when the former was just a boy. This is the same movie where the father is said to have joined Obi-Wan on an idealistic crusade (presumably the Clone Wars). All of that together would seem to suggest that Annikin was, at that time, supposed to be an older character (than the prequels depict) when he left Tatooine and joined up.
    Last edited by Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn, Jun 9, 2014
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  25. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Yup. Novel version:

    'Aren't you Luke Skywalker? Have you been checked out on the Incom T-65?'
    'Sir,' Biggs put in before his friend could reply, 'Luke's the best bush pilot in the outer-rim territories.'
    The older man patted Luke reassuringly on the back as they studied his waiting ship. 'Something to be proud of. I've got over a thousand hours in an Incom sky hopper myself.'
    He paused a moment before going on. 'I met your father once when I was just a boy, Luke. He was a great pilot. You'll do all right out there. If you've got half your father's skill, you'll do a damn sight better than all right.'
    'Thank you, sir. I'll try.'
    'There's not much difference control-wise between an X-wing T-65,' Blue Leader went on, 'and a skyhopper.' His smile turned ferocious. 'Except the payload's of a somewhat different nature.'
    He left them and hurried toward his own ship. Luke had a hundred questions to ask him, and no time for even one.

    The Essential Guide to Warfare has him, while young (hence him referring to himself as a boy), fight alongside Anakin in the Clone Wars:

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Garven_Dreis
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Jun 9, 2014
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