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Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Kabers, Nov 25, 2013.

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  1. rdhight Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2014
    star 3
    Well, and the older Anakin kind of matches up better with Obi-Wan's age in ANH. To make the prequels line up well, you have to imagine that hard Tatooine living took a real heavy toll on ol' Ben's appearance. And maybe it did. Or maybe it wasn't all just from suns and wind; maybe he got Mad Bantha Disease in 17 BBY and was never quite the same after. But I don't think many people looked at Alec Guiness, subtracted the dark times (if we even knew how long they lasted in those days?) and came up with someone who looked like Ewan McGregor in ROTS, either.
    Last edited by rdhight, Jun 9, 2014
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  2. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I must admit that got a [face_laugh] out of me.
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  3. rdhight Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2014
    star 3

    It would explain why Owen doesn't trust the guy!

    "That old wizard is strange, boy... I remember the time he came around with a great big spiral horn growin' outta his head, ravin' about the Dark Mall and a general who grieves us -- damndest-fool stuff I ever heard. He calmed down later, and the horn fell off, but since then, I've told everyone -- don't you let that man near your banthas."
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  4. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In the EU (Legacy comics), we find that the future Darth Krayt was leading a Tusken army against the settlers - and nearly reached the Lars farm. This might have given Owen a certain suspicion of Jedi. And he may also have put two and two together after Anakin came back with Shmi's body.

    The Life & Legend of Obi-Wan Kenobi shows us the events in more detail, after Tuskens (led by a "Tusken" with two lightsabers) start attacking nearby settlements:

    Owen glanced back to his own home, then returned his gaze to Ben. "Normally, I'd tell you to get lost. But I just got word from a friend in Bestine. The Sand People attacked another farm." Owen looked away again. "Only one survivor," he continued. "A little girl. But she didn't last long."
    Ben sighed. "I'm sorry, Owen."
    "I'm not finished!" Owen roared, his eyes now blazing at Ben. The edge of Owen's upper lip quivered nervously.
    He's not just angry, Ben realised. He's terrified.
    Owen licked his lips before he continued. "The little girl ... she said she saw one of the Sand People, maybe their chief. She said he ... he used two 'laser swords.'"
    Over the last three days since Ben's last exchange with Qui-Gon Jinn's spirit, Ben had had plenty of time to consider the possibility that A'Sharad Hett was involved in the recent killings. Still, hearing Owen's description of the marauder's leader made him feel suddenly queasy.
    Oblivious to Ben's discomfort, Owen said through clenched teeth, "I don't suppose you've heard about any missing lightsabers on the planet, Mr Jedi?"
    "Get a hold of yourself, Owen," he said, keeping his voice calm. "You know I had nothing to do with the attacks."
    "Maybe not!" Owen said bitterly. "But I have some idea of what Jedi are capable of!"
    "You're talking about Anakin," Ben said, "About what he did after he learned that his mother had been taken by Tuskens." It wasn't a question.
    Owen winced, then he scowled at the ground. "Shmi Skywalker was a good woman." he said. "We tried to rescue her, but my father ..." The words caught in his throat, and he left the sentence unfinished. Tilting his chin in the direction of the entry dome, he continued, "When Anakin brought Shmi's body home, I'll never forget the look on his face. If killing me would have brought her back to life, I know he would have killed me then and there. I could see it in his eyes."
    Ben grimaced. "Anakin never told me what really happened, Owen. Please trust that what he did that day was not the way of the Jedi."
    "Well, I'm not so sure if that's a relief," Owen said. "Much as I didn't like the way he looked at me, I like the idea of Tuskens with lightsabers even less. There's not a person on Tatooine who wouldn't be happy if all the Tuskens were dead."
    Ben offered no response. He knew that the deaths of Tuskens would not bring him any happiness, but he didn't believe there was any reason in explaining this to Owen.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Jun 9, 2014
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  5. Ananta Chetan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2013
    star 4
    Sort of a sidebar question and probably not really worthy of the In-Depth forum :p ...but what did they Tuskens do with their human captives, eat them?
  6. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    It varies. Some were tortured (Shmi) but they also adopted other beings into the clan occasionally in the EU.
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  7. Lord_Anzeroth Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2013
    star 4
    Does the ROTS novelization clarify the reason Yoda fled from the duel with Sidious after he fell down?
    Was he simply defeated and he realised that he could not overcome Palpatine, or was there something else (like a battalion of shock troopers entering the building)?
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  8. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Yoda does realise that he'd "lost before he was born" - and after he falls, Palpatine immediately calls in the clones:

    The end came with astonishing suddenness.
    The shadow could feel how much it cost the little green freak to bend back his lightnings into the cage of energy that enclosed them both; the creature had reached the limits of his strength. The shadow released its power for an instant, long enough only to whirl away through the air and alight upon one of the delegation pods as it flew past, and the creature leapt to follow—
    Half a second too slow.
    The shadow unleashed its lightning while the creature was still in the air, and the little green freak took its full power. The shock blasted him backward to crash against the podium, and he fell.
    He fell a long way.
    The base of the Arena was a hundred meters below, littered with twisted scraps and jags of metal from the pods destroyed in the battle, and as the little green freak fell, finally, above, the victorious shadow became once again only Palpatine: a very old, very tired man, gasping for air as he leaned on the pod's rail.
    Old he might have been, but there was nothing wrong with his eyesight; he scanned the wreckage below, and he did not see a body.
    He flicked a finger, and in the Chancellor's Podium a dozen meters away, a switch tripped and sirens sounded throughout the enormous building; another surge of the Force sent his pod streaking in a downward spiral to the holding office at the base of the Podium tower. Clone troops were already swarming into it. "It was Yoda," he said as he swung out of the pod. "Another assassination attempt. Find him and kill him. If you have to, blow up the building."
    He didn't have time to direct the search personally. The Force hummed a warning in his bones: Lord Vader was in danger.
    Mortal danger.
    Clones scattered. He stopped one officer. "You. Call the shuttle dock and tell them I'm on my way. Have my ship warmed and ready."
    The officer saluted, and Palpatine, with vigor that surprised even himself, ran.

    With the help of the Force, Yoda sprinted along the service accessway below the Arena faster than a human being could run; he sliced conduits as he passed, filling the accessway behind him with coils of high-voltage cables, twisting and spitting lightning. Every few dozen meters, he paused just long enough to slash a hole in the accessway's wall; once his pursuers got past the cables, they would have to divide their forces to search each of his possible exits.
    But he knew they could afford to; there were thousands of them.
    He pulled his comlink from inside his robe without slowing down; the Force whispered a set of coordinates and he spoke them into the link. "Delay not," he added. "Swiftly closing is the pursuit. Failed I have, and kill me they will."
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Jun 10, 2014
  9. Lord_Anzeroth Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2013
    star 4
    Thank you @Iron_lord.
    This clarified things a lot.


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  10. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
  11. Lord_Anzeroth Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2013
    star 4
    Why did Leia came to Jabba's Palace and use Chewbacca as a way to free Han and pass on as a bounty hunter, when she could have walked in with Luke later on?


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  12. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    This is probably the best explanation I've seen so far:

    Last edited by Iron_lord, Jun 10, 2014
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  13. Sariel2005 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2014
    star 1

    This relates to the questions that are currently plaguing me.

    Where do we get the information that the Clone Wars lasted three years from, I haven't noticed it in the movies ( or in ~The Clone Wars TV series ). The war lasting longer seems sensible in relation to Obi Wan's apparent age in Episode IV and with Ahsoka in the Clone Wars ( who seems to grow up quite considerably). Would the wars length be canon under Disney's new mandate?

    on similar note, where do we get the idea that Empire is three years after Episode IV, the way the characters interact, the dialogue, and even the opening crawl seem to indicate that not too long has passed between the two but timelines have the lengthy gap. Again what level of Canon is this?
  14. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Novelizations of the movies, I think.
  15. Lord_Anzeroth Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2013
    star 4
    That is one awesome explanation. Extremely well written and thought.

    Thanks


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  16. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    There is a timeline presented in one of the issues of Star Wars Insider from the mid-90s, when Lucas was first announcing the prequels. It appears to have been part of the presentation/press conference (?). It has pretty much the same outline as the current film timeline, except I think there are only two years between episodes II and III (which must have been later changed). It also has the three years between SW and ESB. If those sorts of dates had not been clarified before then (for example, in the Star Wars Encyclopedia or other reference materials), then that timeline is where it comes from.

    Interestingly, when Tim Zahn was writing his trilogy of books just a few years prior to that, and was including mentions of the Clone Wars, LFL sent him information indicating that they ended thirty-five years before A New Hope. This date was used throughout EU (Legends) material until the release of TPM. I don't think anyone knows if it originated with Lucas (like, if he were contemplating a different structure for the prequels at that time), some publishing person, or perhaps if the date is some publishing person's assumption that the Clone Wars would end in the first prequel (the timeline from Insider puts Episode I at where it currently is, something like 35 BSW4 - but this option would also mean that the timeline as presented would have had to have been around ~1992, which is a few years before it shows up anywhere else, I think).

    And just to clarify, there are no official levels of Canon anymore. The movies and tv shows (TCW, Rebels) are "Canon," along with yet-to-be-released books like Heir to the Jedi. The previous TV shows (Ewoks), tv movies (Battle for Endor), books (Heir to the Empire), comics, RPG supplements, etc, exist in a less-defined state called "Legends," where the new movies will not go out of their way to match them, but they are still being used as sources for concepts and names, etc (Sienar Fleet Systems in Rebels), and the stories themselves could 'happen' unless something in the movies or other new canon stories overwrites them. It's more complicated than it first appears.

    My understanding is that the Saga forum considers only the movies definitive. TCW, Rebels, any books, etc, can be used as explanations but shouldn't be considered definitive, and discussions shouldn't focus completely on them unless it's something like 'what Splinter of the Mind's Eye tells us about Lucas's early Saga concepts.'
    Last edited by Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn, Jun 12, 2014
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  17. PloKoon77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2014
    As I understand it, Lightsabers need to be specially modified to function underwater to prevent short circuiting or malfunctioning, which explains why Jedi like Kit Fisto have this modification on their lightsaber seeing as he is an aquatic species. My question is, why do Anakin and Ahsoka use their lightsaber with no problem when they are battling on Mon Calamari? I know the wiki simply says that they do function underwater, but I would like to know why these two have the bifurcating cyclical-ignition pulse installed, if neither is an aquatic species.
  18. Force Smuggler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    Because of the war. They would be in a lot of trouble if their lightsabers short-circuited.
  19. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Plus Anakin's old lightsaber worked fine when used underwater by Luke in the EU - though that wouldn't be the writers' reasons for doing it.
  20. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    Is it possible that the ease with which the clones were able to gun down the Jedi is the reason that people doubt The Force in ANH? People thought that if it was so easy to kill Jedi, the Jedi couldn't be as powerful as they claim to be.
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  21. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    Interesting catch. I never thought about that, but it could make sense.
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  22. Lord_Anzeroth Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2013
    star 4

    That seems like a viable possibility. That coupled with anti-Jedi propaganda. :)
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  23. Lord_Anzeroth Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2013
    star 4
    A thing that has been on my mind recently:

    Dooku was not aware that Sidious was Palpatine, or was he?
    Last edited by Lord_Anzeroth, Jul 10, 2014
  24. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I would have thought so. Certainly he is in the EU.

    The RoTS novel has him tempted to wink at Palpatine when Anakin says "We're on to your partner Sidious; we tracked him all over the galaxy. He's probably in Jedi custody right now."

    Dooku and Palpatine even have a conversation right before Anakin & Kenobi arrive - about their plans for Skywalker in the upcoming duel.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Jul 10, 2014
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  25. Lord_Anzeroth Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2013
    star 4
    I have to re-read the ROTS Novel! This stuff sounds awesome! :D

    When does the first conversation take place?
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