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Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Kabers, Nov 25, 2013.

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  1. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Just before Anakin & Kenobi burst into the room:

    It ends with:

    "Compose yourself, Tyranus. Kenobi and Skywalker are nearly at the door. Play your part, my apprentice, and the galaxy is ours."
    Dooku straightened and for the first time looked his Master in the eyes.
    Darth Sidious, Dark Lord of the Sith, sat in the General's Chair, shackled to it at the wrist and ankle.
    Dooku bowed to him. "Thank you, Chancellor."
    Palpatine of Naboo, Supreme Chancellor of the Republic, replied, "Withdraw. They are here."
     
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  2. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Where do Jedi and Sith get their robes from while they're in hiding?
     
  3. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Probably buy "ordinary" robes and tailor them themselves. Sith might dye theirs black.
     
  4. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2009

    They meet each other face-to-face at the end of AOTC, and while Sidious' hood may have worked to conceal his identity via holograms, no way would it work as a disguise in the flesh, let alone on another Force user, nor was it meant to.

    You've also got that look that Dooku gives Palpatine in ROTS after Palps orders Anakin to kill him - the horrified, baffled look of someone who only just realises that he's been stabbed in the back, and has been played for a patsy all along. He knew.
     
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  5. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The novelization puts it very well:

    "Anakin," Palpatine says quietly. "Finish him."
    Years of Jedi training make Anakin hesitate; he looks down upon Dooku and sees not a Lord of the Sith but a beaten, broken, cringing old man.
    "I shouldn't—"
    But when Palpatine barks, "Do it! Now!" Anakin realizes that this isn't actually an order. That it is, in fact, nothing more than what he's been waiting for his whole life.
    Permission.
    And Dooku—
    As he looks up into the eyes of Anakin Skywalker for the final time, Count Dooku knows that he has been deceived not just today, but for many, many years. That he has never been the true apprentice. That he has never been the heir to the power of the Sith. He has been only a tool.
    His whole life—all his victories, all his struggles, all his heritage, all his principles and his sacrifices, everything he's done, everything he owns, everything he's been, all his dreams and grand vision for the future Empire and the Army of Sith—have been only a pathetic sham, because all of them, all of him, add up only to this.
    He has existed only for this.
    This.
    To be the victim of Anakin Skywalker's first cold-blooded murder.
    First but not, he knows, the last.
    Then the blades crossed at his throat uncross like scissors.
    Snip.
    And all of him becomes nothing at all.

     
  6. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Apr 26, 2009
    ^^^
    Testament to Christopher Lee's talent as an actor that he conveys all of that with a couple of looks, and not a single uttered word. And he does express it all, there's nothing in that excerpt that comes as a surprise, it's exactly what I imagined Dooku would have been thinking.
     
  7. Ananta Chetan

    Ananta Chetan Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2013
    Every time I read a passage of Mathew Stover's ROTS novel I am, without exaggeration, completely awed and mesmerized. Then I start fantasizing what if he had written the screenplays for all of the movies in the saga...
     
  8. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    I still think that Stover could have given us a 1000 page story for ROTS.
     
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  9. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 2, 2007
    Yeah, he could have definitely expanded more on the Kashyyyk sections, and the post-Order 66 scenes are horribly rushed compared to the languid opening pages.
     
  10. Dartht Punk

    Dartht Punk Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jul 17, 2014
    Why didn't Obi-Wan or Yoda tell Luke, "You can block Force lightning with your light saber'?

    (I know the answer is because Lucas hadn't thought of it yet, but still....seems stupid of Luke in retrospect).
     
  11. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    In the ROTJ novel, Luke seems to not have heard of Force lightning at all:

    Palpatine raised his spidery arms toward Luke: blinding white bolts of energy coruscated from his fingers, shot across the room like sorcerous lightning, and tore through the boy’s insides, looking for ground. The young Jedi was all at once confounded and in agony—he’d never heard of such a power, such a corruption of the Force, let alone experienced it. But if it was Force-generated, it could be Force-repelled. Luke raised his arms to deflect the bolts. Initially, he was successful—the lightning rebounded from his touch, harmlessly into the walls. Soon, though, the shocks came with such speed and power, they coursed over and into him, and he could only shrink before them, convulsed with pain, his knees buckling, his powers at ebb.
     
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  12. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I'm sure Obi-Wan did tell Luke that Force Lightning can be blocked with a lightsaber, but Palpatine used lightning that was too strong to block.
     
  13. Dartht Punk

    Dartht Punk Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jul 17, 2014
    There is no evidence of that anywhere, not even in the EU.

    The whole point of the scene is that Luke has defeated Vader, and throws away his lightsaber as the physical battle is won and this old crone of a man cannot possibly be a physical threat.

    Then the Emperor hits him with lightning and the audience goes,"Whoa--!"

    As the Emperor says, "Young fool....only now, at the end, do you understand." He is so strong in the Dark Side that he doesn't need weapons.
     
  14. Dartht Punk

    Dartht Punk Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jul 17, 2014
    Interesting stuff....fantastic bit of writing.

    In the earlier RotJ script, where the climax is in a lava-filled throne room, Yoda blocks the Emperor's lightning from beyond the grave-!
     
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  15. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    How about the fact that Obi-Wan and Yoda would want Luke to know what he's up against? There's no way that Obi-Wan and Yoda would withhold information that Luke needs to survive. That's all the evidence I need.

    This is something that there's no evidence of anywhere. Never is Palpatine suggested to not be a physical threat.
     
  16. Dartht Punk

    Dartht Punk Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jul 17, 2014
    Except by Palpatine himself, of course.

    "I am defenseless. Take your weapon. Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete."
     
  17. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Palpatine had a motive to claim defenselessness. He wanted Luke to fall into a trap. The fact that he wants Luke to attack him makes his claim of defenselessness questionable from the beginning (there's no way that Palpatine wants to die). Obi-Wan and Yoda don't have a motive to make Luke think that Palpatine is defenseless and have every motive to make Palpatine's abilities clear to Luke.
     
  18. Dartht Punk

    Dartht Punk Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jul 17, 2014
    So you don't think it's supposed to be a shock that the Emperor, an old crone with a walking stick, is in fact incredibly powerful and can blast lightning out of his hands?
     
  19. Lord_Anzeroth

    Lord_Anzeroth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 2, 2013

    I think that what darklordoftech was trying to say (and apologies if I am wrong) was that Yoda and Obi-Wan was aware of Palpatine's powers and knew that he was not defenceless. Yet, when Yoda told Luke that he would had to face Vader, he did not mention that Palpatine was also a powerful Sith Lord.

    In other words, what you say is supposed to be a shock, but not to Luke if Yoda had warned in the first place.
     
  20. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Yoda was also an old crone with a walking stick, and we already saw that Yoda was quite powerful.

    I really don't understand what's wrong with Luke being told things offscreen.
     
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  21. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    "Luke ... Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor, or suffer your father's fate you will."
     
  22. Dartht Punk

    Dartht Punk Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jul 17, 2014
    Well Vader's fate was being tempted to the Dark Side, not fried with Force lightning, so that's what Yoda means there.
     
  23. Dartht Punk

    Dartht Punk Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jul 17, 2014
    Are you talking about Yoda in Episode II (made 19 years after RotJ) or in TESB? Because in the fomer, the entire point is that Yoda seems harmless and surely he is no match for Dooku. If the latter, then Yoda shows absolutely no fighting ability, and indeed, when TESB was made, Yoda was supposed to be a guru, not a fighter. Lucas said himself at the time that Yoda would be no good in a fight.


    ???

    There is no evidence Luke is told it offscreen. Not even in the EU, it has never been mentioned anywhere. The very fact that Luke throws his lightsaber away when facing the Emperor suggests he didn't know about either Force lightning or that a lightsaber can block it.
     
  24. Dartht Punk

    Dartht Punk Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 17, 2014
    Everything important Luke needs to learn in his story is told onscreen.

    If Luke knew the Emperor could create Force lightning, but also knew he could block it with his lightsaber, but chose not to, then it would have been explained in the film.
     
  25. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    In the novel Luke's not sure how dangerous Palpatine is:

    "Welcome, young Skywalker," the Evil One smiled graciously. "I have been expecting you."
    Luke stared back brazenly at the bent, hooded figure. Defiantly. The Emperor's smile grew even softer though; even more fatherly. He looked at Luke's manacles.
    "You no longer need these," he added with noblesse oblige — and made the slightest motion with his finger in the direction of Luke's wrists. At that, Luke's binders simply fell away, clattering noisily to the floor.
    Luke looked at his own hands — free, now, to reach out for the Emperor's throat, to crush his windpipe in an instant ...
    Yet the Emperor seemed gentle. Had he not just let Luke free? But he was devious, too, Luke knew. Do not be fooled by appearances, Ben had told him. The Emperor was unarmed. He could still strike. But wasn't aggression part of the dark side? Mustn't he avoid that at all costs? Or could he use darkness judiciously, then put it away? He stared at his free hands ... he could have ended it all right there — or could he? He had total freedom to choose what to do now; yet he could not choose. Choice, the double-edged sword. He could kill the Emperor, he could succumb to the Emperor's arguments. He could kill Vader ... and then he could even become Vader. Again this thought laughed at him like a broken clown, until he pushed it back into a black corner of his brain.
    The Emperor sat before him, smiling. The moment was convulsive with possibilities ...
    The moment passed. He did nothing.