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Full Series Grade the Episode - 201 "Holocron Heist"

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by Gry Sarth, Jun 30, 2011.

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Grade the Episode - 201 "Holocron Heist"

Poll closed Jun 30, 2011.
  1. 10

    20.0%
  2. 9

    30.0%
  3. 8

    26.7%
  4. 7

    10.0%
  5. 6

    6.7%
  6. 5

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. 4

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. 3

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. 2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. 1

    6.7%
  1. Gry Sarth

    Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 1999
    WELCOME TO SEASON TWO!

    Now that you've watched this episode again, how would you rate it?

    Remember, unlike our Season 3 polls, please feel free to discuss the episode as much as you'd like in this thread. Did the episode seem any different than the first time you saw it?

    Grade average (31 votes): 8

    <img src="http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091003010461/starwars/images/6/6f/Epguide201.jpg">
     
  2. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    9/10

    The best of the holocron trilogy. Loved the opening battle with Plo Koon rescuing Obi-Wan and Anakin, the noir-like scene of Cad Bane watching through the window with a tooth stick, Jocasta Nu, Ahsoka being punished for her actions, etc...
     
  3. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2011
    I rate it a 7. The opening battle scene is good with a cool rescue and retreat by the republic. Although Ashoka got into trouble in this episode, its another good one for her. The duel with the fake Jocasta was well executed. Cad Bane is awesome, loved the rocket boots and TODO 360 ftw. Its to bad the little droid was destroyed. Loved the his final moments when he popped out of the vents and was like --"Hi guys... just testing the access hatch." -- On the other hand the Jedi had an extrordinary amount of trouble locating the intruder and Yoda was really cheesy in this episode. Thats -2 points from me and destroying TODO dropped it another point.
     
  4. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2005
    I gave it a 7 as well. Like I said in 09, I rank this episode as the second episode that's decent to watch in the Holocron arc, with Cargo of Doom being first, and Children being last. Seeing TCW's only viable villain Cad Bane again was good, and I liked his character in this episode.

    The things I didn't like was Todo-360 and his humorous/comic-relief attitude in the episode, Ahsoka's annoying/want to punch her in the face presence in the beginning Felucia battle that took me out of the episode (glad she settled a bit as the episode went on, but her punishment was too short), Obi-Wan and Anakin's stupidity while trying to find the intruder in the Temple, and then what striked me as odd was Kit Fisto standing next to Aayla.
     
  5. fistofan1

    fistofan1 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2009
    9/10 for me. Great opening battle, cool looks inside the Jedi Temple and some really competent villains for a change. I especially loved Bane's trick at the end. It showed that he really is threat to the Jedi.

    I took a point off for Ahsoka's inconsistent characterization compared to Storm Over Ryloth. That's one aspect of the show that really bugs me. :oops:
     
  6. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy

    ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Pretty much everything has been said already. I'll settle on an 8. I still enjoy this episode a lot, despite it's shortcomings. But the stupid Todo 360 "let's bring him back from the dead so we don't waste his model" retcon will always ruin this episode to an extent. He should have stayed dead.

    Also, is there a bug with the poll? It says 0 7 votes even though 2 people apparently voted 7.
     
  7. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Voter error, it's actually quite common here.
     
  8. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    What so odd about that?

    That has nothing to do with this episode, since this was it's first appearance.
     
  9. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy

    ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Excuse me, I'll decide whether the retcon had any impact on the episode for me, not you. And yes, it did.
     
  10. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    It may have, but it's not a fault of this episode, wether you like it or not.
     
  11. Swashbucklingjedi

    Swashbucklingjedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Nice start for season2 this was i'll give 8

    pros and cons:
    +Opening sequence- it was great to see Felucia in TCW- while we have seen it a lot after this i still haven't seen enough- this was not breathtaking version of Felucia though but looked good enough- bit dry but well there was probably dry season there or it was different climate zone......

    +CIS-victory was definitely promising start for second season but unfortunately same didn't continue:( and it's said this was Grievous' army so even better- i just would've wanted Grievous giving 'victory laugh' without losing afterwards- that's so rare in this show- usually he laughs just before disaster....now he could've had victory without defeat....

    + Ahsoka messes up- so her overconfidence-issue is clear in this- her greatest flaw- now she almost got herself killed and way Windu gives her lecture was hilarious "longer now"[face_laugh]- i want to see more Windu and Ahsoka together- unlike Plo- Windu is someone who doesn't protect Ahsoka too much but dares to be like Master should be- with Plo Soka is just like "sorry master[face_batting]" and Plo forgives, but Windu is different.... but yeah "punishment" was too short

    +Holocrons- never seen in the movies great to see in TCW

    +TODO-360 is absolutely great comic relief and Cato Parasitti- while bit Zam Wesell ripoff is still good addition to TCW since this changeling-idea was wasted in AOTC really.....

    + Jocasta Nu- one of the great cameos in AOTC now in TCW-form- good to see her....

    + All traps and overall "mission impossible" setting were nice combination with Bane and jedi- entertaining episode....

    -Way Cato and TODO were wasted- they would've been good companions to Bane in the Future- yeah TODO was but he blew up and that retcon with Anakin:oops: - it sucks..... they shouldn't have let him to blow up without revealing Bane has backupdisc of him or something.....

    -Ending is not best possible- Why it's Anakin who goes for Ropal- and Ahsoka she should remain behind as punishment- it's clear this was made after Cargo of Doom........

    -Way all other jedi just waited when Anakin and Obi-Wan do stuff- there is many jedi there and most just stand there when temple is attacked- how stupid.... mainly this removes those 2 points


    but Fisto and Aayla are 'friends' why they couldn't be close each other? They were just standing there not being 'too close' anyway....

    Yes but if they wouldn't have "wasted" TODO now there wouldn't have been any need for stupid retcon:p

    I would've rather seen TODO blowing up Bane:p
     
  12. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2005
    Alexrd, it's the writers' fault and whoever else makes the poor decisions to bring back a character from the dead. This is not new in TCW.
     
  13. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy

    ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2011
    It's just disrespectful to steamroll over previous writers' work. It's like the Shipyards of Doom/The Citadel issue again. Unnecessary continuity blunders and retcons for the sake of them.
     
  14. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    And what does that has to do with this episode?
     
  15. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2005
    Who do you think appears and dies off in the episode, but then reappears later.
     
  16. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Retcon = retroactive continuity

    Retroactive: extending in scope or effect to a prior time or to conditions that existed or originated in the past.
    Continuity: logical sequence, cohesion, or connection.


    As you can see, anything done retroactively has an effect on the past.

    Before you say "but that happened in another episode", TCW episodes do not exist in a vacuum.
     
  17. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy

    ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2011
    This is starting to get painful Alexrd.

    First off, bringing Todo back after his death unfortunately gives us the hindsight to know that it doesn't really matter that he got killed off in this episode. Thus, any impact that was originally caused by Todo's death is lost because we know he's not really lost forever.

    Second, after his treatment in this episode, I am left dumbfounded why Todo would go back to Bane for Evil Plans. The guy blew him up for Christ's sake. Every time I rewatch this episode I wonder this, which takes away from the overall experience.

    Third, there's no debris from that explosion, so I don't see how he even could be rebuilt.

    And finally, I don't even think he was even enjoyable enough as a character to justify bringing him back and messing all this up. He's a pretty typical comic relief sidekick that gets betrayed by the main villain, et cetera, it's been done before and after this episode and it's getting a bit stale as a concept.
     
  18. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    His reappearance has nothing to do with this episode. That is a "problem" of 'Evil Plans'.
     
  19. AkashKedavra_93

    AkashKedavra_93 Moderator Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2011
    9/10

    +Jocasta Nu
    +Ahsoka getting taught a lesson
    +Cad Bane
    +Holocron
    +Fight between Cato and Ahsoka

    Overall, another great episode that has the pen of Paul Dini attached to it. I really enjoyed this episode, but the only real bugging points for me were how long it took for the Jedi to find the intruder and, to a lesser extent, Yoda's dialogue.
     
  20. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011

    Many people find Luke and Leia's "relationship" in ANH and ESB slightly icky because of what we learn in ROTJ.

    The cause of this discomfort did not exist until after ANH and ESB were made, yet the discomfort is still there when watching those movies.
     
  21. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    I'm not questioning the "discomfort". I'm questioning the blame being put into this episode because of another episode. That's fallacious.
     
  22. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    It's not about blame. Regardless of blame, the retcon has altered his perception of this episode in a negative way. Holocron Heist does not exist in a vacuum.


     
  23. Garth Maul

    Garth Maul Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 18, 2002
    I think the argument is over.

    This is the "rewatch the episode" thread, and I think the TODO retcon issue is valid, just depends whether or not it bothers you.
     
  24. rumblewagon

    rumblewagon Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2004
    The TODO retcon completely shatters my entire Star Wars universe and threatens to unravel the space/time continuum as I know it. I can no longer distinguish the multiple realities from one another that are trying to exist simultaneously in my mind. Is TODO alive or was he dead, or did he discover a time machine and copy himself onto a flash drive?
     
  25. ILuvJarJar

    ILuvJarJar Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 19, 2008
    8/10

    Good season opener. Cad Bane further proved to be the best original character that had been introduced in TCW. I also liked the appearances of Todo 360 and Jocasta Nu. It was also around the time of this episode where I started liking Ahsoka instead of resenting her like in earlier episodes.