TCW Episode Grade the Episode: S05E09: A Necessary Bond

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Dec 2, 2012.

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CW Grade the Episode: S05E09

10/10 16 vote(s) 38.1%
9/10 8 vote(s) 19.0%
8/10 9 vote(s) 21.4%
7/10 3 vote(s) 7.1%
6/10 1 vote(s) 2.4%
5/10 0 vote(s) 0.0%
4/10 1 vote(s) 2.4%
3/10 1 vote(s) 2.4%
2/10 2 vote(s) 4.8%
1/10 1 vote(s) 2.4%
  1. kenobifan1999 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    she never won against grevious. she clearly lost their first battle in season 1, and this battle in season 5 she was losing before she ran away. that doesnt count as winning, more like barley surviving
  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    She's a teenage kid. Fighting Grievous alone. Twice. And escaping uninjured.

    My point is made.
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  3. kenobifan1999 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
  4. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    From what I saw, Ahsoka didn't exactly kick Grievous's ass, other way around for once. She getting worn the hell out. I don't think she would have made it without being rescued by Slave I. The first time she made him look a little like a chump but ended up running as well.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 28, 2012
  5. AkashKedavra_93 Emperor of the Seven Realms and the First Dragons

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    Jan 8, 2011
    star 4
    Ahsoka nearly died, that's how I see it.
    Seerow likes this.
  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Semantics that intentionally miss the point are always fun though.
    JackG likes this.
  7. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    I agree that Ahsoka should not fight Grievous. But when she's backed into a corner (or in this case - faced with the option of Grievous attacking her youngling charges and standing in his way to defend them), then her only option is to stand and fight. In a perfectly ideal world, Ahsoka should remain at the Jedi Temple and practice whatever Force meditations Jedi do. But their galaxy is far from idealistic. And I strongly disagree that the original intent of the mission is not important. It is very important as its intent is advancing several youngling Jedi further along in their Jedi training.
  8. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Since the mission is so important, why exactly was a teenage Padawan, as opposed to an adult Knight or Master, put in charge of several younglings? Makes no sense whatsoever. Nor does Ahsoka surviving a fight with Grievous twice, as a teenage Padawan fighting him without help. With all your talk about an "ideal world," you once again missed my point. The issue is with the writers, because Filoni is in the midst of a three-year-long Ahsoka wet dream, giving her powers that no other teenage Padawan has or realistically (based on the rest of Star Wars) should have.
    JackG and CT-867-5309 like this.
  9. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    - perhaps Ahsoka is assigned because the Jedi are spread too thin.
    - fleeing a fight can certainly assist in surviving a fight. I'm not sure why you have such a problem with Ahsoka surviving those fights in which she fled.
    - no other padawan (that we know of) has ever been assigned to the most powerful Jedi in history; so comparing Ahsoka to other padawans is not entirely accurate.
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Still a stupid move. And I have a very hard time believing that there is literally no one older and more experienced left to supervise a group of kids on a mission that you think is so important.

    I explained why; you ignored my explanation, I'm not wasting my keyboard strokes again.

    So Anakin is "the most powerful Jedi in history" due to his outstanding teaching skills? Really? If not, I'm not sure what Ahsoka being assigned to him has to do with anything, unless the Council has done a "transfer of power" via osmosis.

    Obviously I like Anakin, but as I see it, he has a high midichlorian count about which has been made a ridiculous big deal, and he is a skilled warrior, but I haven't seen anything about him that warrants his Padawan being made into The Ultimate One simply because she was assigned to him.
    CT-867-5309 likes this.
  11. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    star 6
    I'm not convinced babysitting Younglings is all that important even if Yoda says it is. He's gotta be way to busy to be running field trips. The same is true for most of the big name Jedi I can thank of. The thing with Hondo jumping the Younglin's to steal their crystals was an unfortunately thing for a routine field trip. That is unless the Separatists regularly jump these missions. I'm not under the impression is rare. So, why not send an advanced Padawan to do the babysitting? That's not nearly as random of baffling as why Ahsoka was sent to Mandalore to watch over those peace talks where it seems real experienced knight should have atleast been there.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 28, 2012
    rumblewagon likes this.
  12. AkashKedavra_93 Emperor of the Seven Realms and the First Dragons

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    Jan 8, 2011
    star 4
    It would make sense to have an accomplished Padawan with the younglings. I could see a Padawan being less intimidating and more "connecting" with younglings.
    rumblewagon likes this.
  13. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    I am agreeing that Ahsoka worked fine in her role in this arc.
    rumblewagon likes this.
  14. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    You're right, that role was far more ridiculous, but with the war going on and the likely chance that they'll run into danger--which they did--I don't think putting a Padawan in charge of any mission was a smart move.
  15. kenobifan1999 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    ashoka isnt your average padawan. thats like calling anakin in AOTC or obiwan in TPM just padawans.... having said that, putting ashoka in cha\rge makes WAY more sense while their at war. why waste a jedi knight or master babysitting younglings while they make their lightsabers? despite what you keep repeating, the chances were that 99% of the time this mission would be an easy peaceful one thats just babysitting
    rumblewagon likes this.
  16. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    If Ahsoka isn't your average padawan, why waste her talents on babysitting? If she's on the same level Anakin and Obi-Wan were, she should be involved in the war in some way, right? Even if you argue she shouldn't be in the most heated battles, surely she can be used in less dangerous missions of the war, such as supply escort, rear guard actions or any of the millions of combat duties needed in war.

    Why not choose an elderly, wise Master who is no longer really fit for war? Why not someone similar to Tera Sinube? If the galaxy is too dangerous for such a person, why not someone who is in a little better shape, but still not well-suited to war? Surely there are plenty of Jedi whose talents lie in areas other than war. Oh wait, never mind, Ahsoka already is a wise Jedi Master.

    The way I see it, there are thousands of Jedi in the galaxy, whether they be Master, Knight, or Padawan. Of those thousands, why choose Ahsoka?

    Because she's already a main character? Okay. The problem I have with that is that Ahsoka, as a unique character, wasn't fulfilling a role that uniquely fits Ahsoka, nor did she receive any notable character development during the arc. Imo, her presence went completely unused.

    In the end, I'm not really bothered by using Ahsoka for the Young Jedi arc, I just think there was definitely better choices. It was yet another opportunity for an original Jedi character that went squandered. I'm not buying any "character models take time" arguments anymore, not after all the character models we've seen created and go practically unused.
  17. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    Ahsoka should never have survived her first duel against Grievous, let alone a second. It's just because Filoni loves the character that she can defy canon; canon which states that many superior Masters and Knights were slain by the General.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  18. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    While I don't agree with everything you said, you do have some very valid points. I also don't buy the excuse about character models taking too much time to develop - especially when they've killed off some of those characters they developed for one episode/arc.
  19. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    They tried to put Ahsoka in a mentor type role here to show off how mature she is now, to show off where here character is now compared to where she was. Tsenube could have worked but I have a hard time imagining him vs. Hondo. Who else already exists who could take the mentor role?Looking at the arc as a whole far as the kidnapping, beating, ransom, and invasion of Florrum I think an established OC worked best there. I agree Ahsoka got no notable development since the arc mainly just ran a highlighter on what she already had and damn what I got out of it is Ahsoka has gotten boring.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 29, 2012
  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Exactly.

    She was much, much better where she was. And I haven't even seen any plot points that would age her 30 years in two, other than the war, which should not have any greater effect on her than on any other character. The war should have matured Anakin in a similar fashion since he and Ahsoka (at least in the first two seasons) have similar personalities, but the war had the effect of making Anakin panicky and paranoid as hell, whereas our lil 'Shoka is all grown up now thanks to having seen too many battles and getting stranded on a planet where she is the only one who can talk to the Wookiees. I'm not buying it.

    As you said, she's gotten boring, and as I see it, Mary Sue-ish.
  21. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    @anakinfansince1983

    If you ask me, Ahsoka has been toning down and getting more mature and down right lethal since throughout season 4. It does seem however like come Onderon and particularly in Young Jedi, Ahsoka completely turned some corner off screen. I'm sorry but I only place so much stock in age, no offense to anyone but time spent on the earth...errr in the galaxy, doesn't mean you grow in mind. My main issue is its so abrupt. Unfortunately this is probably meant to be some kind of contrast to Anakin.. I've never really had a problem with Ahsoka's skills or her learning to speak Wookiee since I'm sure she would have plenty of time to practice and acquire any skills she would have wanted to learn. she might have learned to speak some languages in the temple and then she has likely been dueling since she was as small as any of the younglings.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 29, 2012
  22. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I agree, but I don't like it at all. She was a lot more fun in the first couple of seasons when she could match Anakin in smartassery. Her being shown as 16-going-on-50 as a way to make her look perfect in contrast to Anakin is just wrong IMO. It just seems another way for Filoni to play the "Look at how awesome my favorite character is!" game.

    I don't disagree with you about age, there are mature teenagers and 20-somethings and immature middle-aged people; it's not so much that Ahsoka is mature that I have a problem with, it's that she is now being written with no flaws, not even the ones that made her fun in the first couple of seasons, and she's being written that way to the detriment of the rest of the story solely because Filoni likes her so much.
  23. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I wonder if this maturity, regardless of how it developed (or didn't), is a part of developing her ultimate fate. What I'm saying is, is this foreshadowing?
  24. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    star 6
    I've wondered the same thing since Ahsoka would certainly be capable of making tough decisions about leaving the order or switching sides or even that she doesn't want to be anywhere around Anakin in the near future. I'm willing to bet if they had a debate over something Ahsoka would sound all like an adult and piss Anakin off, particularly it its over something important. Padme? The Republic? The Jedi Order.
    Last edited by Seerow, Dec 29, 2012
  25. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I could see the writers having Ahsoka take a "You're going down a path that I can't follow" stance with Anakin, although it will make me want to beat my head against a wall. (And no, I didn't feel that way when Padme took the same stance, for her character it made sense.) I wonder if Anakin would choke her afterwards... [face_thinking]

    I'd actually rather she switch to the Separatists or leave the Order for Lux.