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TCW Episode Grade the Episode: S05E15: Shades of Reason

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Feb 3, 2013.


Rate this episode please...

  1. 10/10

  2. 9/10

  3. 8/10

  4. 7/10

  5. 6/10

  6. 5/10

  7. 4/10

    0 vote(s)
  8. 3/10

  9. 2/10

    0 vote(s)
  10. 1/10

  1. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 7, 2011
    My apologies for the delay guys. Here it is...

    You guys know the drill.

    Poll results are available by clicking on the number of votes next to each score.

    That being said, we'd still prefer you to post with your score and what you liked and disliked
  2. Jordan1Kenobi

    Jordan1Kenobi Host of Star Wars Character Contest star 6 VIP - Game Host

    Sep 30, 2012
    I'd give it a 9.5/10, but for this poll I've given it a 10/10, mostly because of the Maul vs. Vizsla duel, which was amazing! Definitely one of the best duels in the entire series.
  3. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Mar 4, 2011

    My longer comments are in the Discussion thread so I'll spare you the majority of my disgust here, but here is the short version:

    The script appeared to have been written by a middle schooler. Or younger.

    "Maul is hot. Look! Mandos! Flying jet packs! Cool! And pacifists are stupid people who do nothing but preach, at least that's what my grandpa says."

    Duel was OK, but not enough to redeem this one for me.
    Mr. Atom Bomb and CT-867-5309 like this.
  4. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 7, 2011
    I'll give this one an 8. I can't do a full 10 because the execution with this kind of breakneck pacing failed this episode. The mando guards were unbelievably weak and the invasion to take over was to fast. On the other hand this episode has some awesome character interplay. There is some great character development here. It brought relevance to "Corruption" and "The Academy". Lastly the duel at the end was epic.
  5. Orrelios

    Orrelios Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Feb 21, 2005
    This one was pretty great. It was great to see Mandalore, Satine and even Almec again (and nice reference to the S3 Mandalore duology) and like the episode before it, I didn't have any problems with the pacing. The interactions between the character and the dialogue was top notch and that duel between Vizsla and Maul was the highlight; what a fight that was. At the moment I cannot think of something I disliked about it, it was quite a solid episode. 9/10.
  6. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Jan 5, 2011
    I've really struggled to score this one. The duel is 10/10, but it's only like two and a half minutes. I can't give them a passing grade based on a few minutes, can I?

    The rest of the episode is literally a 0/10, it deserves no points. I cannot be dissuaded from that assessment.

    So, average that out? 5/10? No, that's not fair to give an amazingly awesome two minutes the same weight as the excruciating remaining twenty minutes.

    And I'm not even taking Maul's inevitable failed return into account here.

    I'm giving the episode three points, based entirely on the duel. If you just focus on time (which is not the way to do it, imo), that's about three times as many points as it should get.

    Mr. Atom Bomb likes this.
  7. rumblewagon

    rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Sep 24, 2004
    +1 for the best lightsaber duel (until the following episode) of TCW.
  8. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy

    ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Feb 25, 2011
    Wow, look at all those tens. Will this be the single highest rated episode ever?

    I still don't know what you're all seeing in this one.
  9. rumblewagon

    rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Sep 24, 2004
    I thought you liked this one and did not like The Lawless? Maybe I'm recalling what I read incorrectly.
  10. Billy_Dee_Binks

    Billy_Dee_Binks Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Mar 29, 2002
    I had only minor nitpicks with this otherwise incredible episode. A clear 10/10 regardless.
    rumblewagon likes this.
  11. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy

    ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Feb 25, 2011
    Apparently I didn't read the title and thought this was for The Lawless. But I didn't much like Shades of Reason either. The only thing I really liked was Maul vs Vizsla.
  12. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Jan 5, 2011
    I wonder how many people thought this was for "The Lawless".
  13. rumblewagon

    rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Sep 24, 2004
    Maybe that should be another poll.
    CT-867-5309 likes this.
  14. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Mar 4, 2011
    I knew from the discussion thread right after the episode aired, that there were only a few of us who didn't like it.

    I'm with Fanboy on this one, I have no idea what you all saw in this, other than the duel.
  15. KED12345

    KED12345 Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 10, 2012
    10/10 from me!
    rumblewagon likes this.
  16. JackG

    JackG Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Aug 15, 2011
    This was the weakest of the arc after Revival; plot conveniences such as Satine being portrayed as weak, terrible pacing and some nonsensical decisions. The return of Almec and the Pre Vizla duel are this episode's redeeming factor, along with the animation for this arc being top notch.

    A generous 7/10.
  17. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Sep 16, 2005
    I settled on 7 - I loved the duel, even better than Maul-Savage-Sids in the following one.

    But the pace was both fast (not a negative by itself) and rushed - too rushed. Somehow the following episode found a way to "de-rush" the fast pace that this one did not accomplish - boom, boom, boom all the dominos fall.
  18. Sable_Hart

    Sable_Hart Jedi Master star 4

    Nov 28, 2009
    “The Lawless” notwithstanding, “Shades of Reason” was the finest episode in recent memory and one of the best the show has seen in its five seasons. (Admittedly, my infatuation with the Sith showdown in the former may preclude an objective comparison between the two episodes: so I readily concede the possibility that the latter is better, all things considered.)

    It wasn’t perfect, of course. The show continues to oscillate with respect to quality, suffering from the same flaws that plagued the prequels: clumsy dialogue, disjointed pacing, and silly plot threads (e.g., Almec’s warm reception). 22-minute spans undoubtedly put pressure on writers to convey such complexity, but they should learn to rise to the challenge rather than default to time constraints.

    On the flipside, Maul’s Machiavellian side finally paid off the substantial creative debt owed to his resurrection; by the end of this episode, my conversion to the Bring-Back-Maul club was complete. Savage was wrongly sidelined this arc and I dislike the decision to relegate him to Force Thug status for a number of reasons: (1) It undermines Maul’s mastery, (2) it undermines the character arc Savage himself underwent in seasons three and four, (3) it minimized the role of the great Clancy Brown, and (4) it somewhat torpedoes the impact of his ultimate fate. Having said that, I absolutely loved the havoc he wreaked in his escape—especially the moment ripped straight from The Force Unleashed playbook.

    Pre Vizsla cemented his formidability here. First, I appreciated his confirmed lack of megalomania, his (twisted) sense of honor, and his resignation to his fate. His duel with Maul was the best the show had seen up to that point and achieved the impossible: reaffirming Maul’s inevitable victory while also reinforcing Vizsla’s surprising lethality. He will be missed.

  19. 07jonesj

    07jonesj Jedi Master star 4

    Aug 16, 2010
    After an episode which was largely set-up (admittedly good set-up), this story paid off. Though the initial attacks on Mandalore were not as impactful as I'd hoped. I guess I expected more havoc.

    I, for one, liked how powerful Savage was portrayed as in this episode. Whether he was using his double-bladed lightsaber to take down swaths of guards, using the Force to throw people off of balconies (almost!), using his awesome Force Repulse to create an ultra-cool glass-smashing effect, or Force Choking a hapless Mandalorian guard, Savage kicked ass here. Some people complain about his role, but this is what the Nightsisters wanted - Savage was created to be a blunt instrument for Ventress.

    Maul is the brains. And oh, did he seem in control of the situation all throughout, allowing Pre Vizsla to think he was in control. I'm on board the Maul train - his depiction in TCW has been MUCH better than his meager (read: pointless) appearance in Episode I. He is a menacing villain, who is able to remain calm and casual as his plan unfolds. Yet, there are hints of his inner rage that seep out. Dangerous.

    Obviously the lightsaber duel was a highlight. One of the best. Vizsla using his darksaber (which still sounds awesome), along with a variety of gadgets befitting a man wearing the armour of a man we first knew as a bounty hunter.

    -1 respect for chickening out on the decapitation.

    +1 respect for killing the first major character on this show. I'll actually miss Vizsla as he was quite an interesting villain. A good original character for TCW to create, and a good end.

    Bringing Almec back into the proceedings was an appreciated payoff to the Season 3 duology, which I had previously feared would be rendered pointless. The visual of Maul lounging on the throne, giving orders to Almec is a powerful one.

    Bo-Katan shows that her allegiances lie in Vizsla and what he believes in, not in an outsider who thinks he can command Mandalore. And so a schism is created. I wish we'd got more Bo-Katan/Vizsla development as that could have been quite an interesting character relationship, and would have made Bo-Katan's move that much more powerful.

    9/10 - Best episode of this arc so far.
    Barriss_Coffee and rumblewagon like this.
  20. swcolts1277

    swcolts1277 Jedi Knight star 2

    Jan 5, 2013
    10/10 Great episode. Duel was incredible, great action, good dialogue, Pre Viszla went out like a champ.
    rumblewagon likes this.
  21. KenobiSkywalker

    KenobiSkywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 3, 2012
    While I enjoyed this episode, something in it's execution seemed a little off. Maybe a directors cut would clear that up.

    7/10 If for nothing else, the Maul/Vizsla duel.
  22. Convor

    Convor Jedi Knight star 2

    Feb 25, 2011
    Despite the problems with pacing, I had a blast watching this one.

    That's all that really matters, right? Fun?

    rumblewagon and Todd the Jedi like this.
  23. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Master star 5

    Apr 29, 2011
    I need to watch this again...I kind of lean towards the sentiment that the Maul/Vizsla duel was amazing, but besides that, this was the dullest the arc got...but I need to watch it again to either confirm that's the case or remember some things. I won't be able to stop myself from appreciating all the Savage Opress stuff even more now that I've seen the end of the arc, though.
  24. AkashKedavra_93

    AkashKedavra_93 Moderator Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jan 8, 2011
    +Animation was brilliant as usual
    +Savage was awesome here
    +Poor, poor, poor Satine, I feel really bad for her right now
    +Satine's and Almec's conversation
    +The betrayal angles were pulled off nicely
    +Darth Maul is brilliant here
    +Shards of glass falling down as Maul/Savage escape
    +Almec, slimy as he is, is used well
    +Maul's smile is creepy
    +Maul versus Vizsla, HOLY ****, that was AWESOME!
    +Bo-Katan owns the Mauldalorians there

    -The people of Mandalore are ******* stupid

    9.5/10, but closer to a 9. On to next week!!!
    rumblewagon likes this.
  25. 07jonesj

    07jonesj Jedi Master star 4

    Aug 16, 2010
    Now that we know who Bo-Katan is, I wonder if that was a political play to win the people over? Having a Vizsla and a Kryze would surely be a strong motive for the people.