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TCW Episode Grade the Episode: S05E15: Shades of Reason

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Feb 3, 2013.

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Rate this episode please...

  1. 10/10

    44.6%
  2. 9/10

    25.0%
  3. 8/10

    14.3%
  4. 7/10

    7.1%
  5. 6/10

    1.8%
  6. 5/10

    1.8%
  7. 4/10

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. 3/10

    1.8%
  9. 2/10

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. 1/10

    3.6%
  1. SkywalkerSquadron

    SkywalkerSquadron Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2013
    I gave it an 8/10. I just didn't hold my interest as well as Eminence and The Lawless, although it was extremely good.
     
  2. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2011
    I'm also going with an 8, more for how that fits in relation to other episodes I've rated 7, 8, and 9 than anything else.
     
  3. Mr. Atom Bomb

    Mr. Atom Bomb Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Giving it a 5, and that's generous.

    Maul vs. Vizla was incredibly well choreographed in my opinion, but the fact that an entire planetary wide government was toppled in a few minutes by a known terrorist organization will never be alright with me. The only proof that the people are offered that Death Watch isn't behind the attacks is Vizla saying "Nope, that's not us." Where I could enjoy The Lawless for spectacle alone, this one had me groaning the entire time over how over simple they made the political implications of an entirely new rule. Not okay.

    [...Seriously though, I timed it, and within six minutes of the criminals arriving Satine confesses that the people are "on their side now." :rolleyes: ]

    This had so much potential, but...
    [​IMG]
     
    JackG, CT-867-5309 and Darth_Zandalor like this.
  4. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Mr. Atom Bomb that would be a more compelling point if they didn't have the montage of civilians being attacked by various criminals and being saved by Death Watch. If I went through that experience or even saw it happen to someone else, my attitude about them would change pretty quickly too (not that I think it's supposed to be a literal six minutes in-universe).
     
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  5. Allana_Rey

    Allana_Rey Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    9/10. This episode was utterly amazing. It was the best TCW episode of S5 and one of the best episodes ever. Easily the best in the arc.
     
    rumblewagon likes this.
  6. Mr. Atom Bomb

    Mr. Atom Bomb Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    As far as I'm concerned they went from being bonafide terrorists to "Saviors! We owe them our lives!" [ [face_frustrated] ] in far too short a time span, in-universe or out, for it to be believable. In every appearance prior to this one they've been publicly gunning for the Duchess and have been trying to usurp her rule, and yet the Mandalorian populace just changes its apparently singular opinion of them after a few quick saves? They bombed that park and killed civilians while broadcasting that it was their own work. It just doesn't sit right with me that in a few short years the people have forgotten that. In the real world if an insurgent cell set off a bomb and then a year or two later stopped a bank robbery in the same city I don't think all would be forgotten so easily.

    Basically what I'm trying to say is that the montage was nowhere near enough to sell the point for me that they went from terrorists to heroes worthy of a grand rally in a matter of days(?). It felt condensed and contrived, and honestly I hated it. You're allowed to feel otherwise, but I cannot take that montage and Vizla's thirty second speech as enough to topple a government, pacifist or otherwise.
     
  7. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2011
    It felt quick to me too, but I think the reason you take issue with it is the same reason why it didn't bother me - thinking about how people would react if this were a situation in real life. (With one importance being I think it would be very unreasonable to assume that before this episode the entire populace of Mandalore had the same political views of Death Watch.) I don't give people that much credit. There are examples from human history and modern politics (U.S. presidential "kill list" is a perfect example currently in the news) where people either consider certain personal beliefs core to their society being civilized while simultaneously engaging in acts that run counter to those professed beliefs, or (like the kill list) where a certain portion of the population takes a particular core personal belief when one side is in charge only to abandon it altogether when another side is put in charge. Unfortunately, people are lemmings. And to touch on the other point again for a moment, I don't think all Mandalorians are all about politics and have die-hard core political beliefs. There are some who think ill of Death Watch, some who don't, and a whole lot in between who don't realize how important it is to even give a damn. From that viewpoint, the takeover is not nearly as farfetched as the rushed montage might make it feel. It's also significant that Death Watch was a domestic organization considered to be terrorists by some rather than an outside threat, all the easier to manipulate the less politically aware bulk of the populace into rallying behind them. Looking at how humans behave in real life, it's not just plausible but fully likely that there are some people who considered themselves pacifists when Satine was in charge and everything was fine who went to being Death Watch supporters once they saw their friends and family being killed and Death Watch were playing the role of the heroes Satine refused to play.
     
    QuangoFett and rumblewagon like this.
  8. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    DLT, ever hear of paragraphs? Make them your friend. ;) (Sorry, though by and large I agree with you.)

    I think the takeover could have been a bit better executed if shown in a montage sort of way - lots of quick flashes here and there, some way to indicating a bit of the scope of the incidents - but it's all implied so I can live with it. I imagine it something like 50 American cities getting bombed, etc. all at once - the terror of the people would lead to a lot of irrationality and a grasping at any hope of "salvation."
     
  9. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Soren Kierkegaard wrote in an intentionally dense fashion because he believed that anything worth understanding shouldn't come easy but have to be worked towards. I like Kierkegaard.

    EDIT: In order to convey my sincerity in this post as less than 100%, I'll add an emoticon:

    :p
     
  10. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Your paragraph was like eight sentences, all based on the same topic. Classic rules of writing say that's not only fine, but dandy.

    I tend to break my comments up solely for the purpose of making it easier on the eyes, but I don't expect others to break their writing habits for me.
     
  11. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Yeah, but 16 lines on a computer screen is a bit tough on OLD eyes like mine.

    And I thought I was being, well, "polite' since I added my emoticon to soften it from a "oh gee" to an "oh, gee." And then I apologized.

    :D

    Eh, back to the topic - what's that again?
     
  12. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    I do not use emoticons. Emoticons imply that I possess emotions. I do not. That is all.
     
  13. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    You're a, cough, "Jedi" then, according to some. I'd elaborate, a tiny bit, but it might go astray even with an emoticon. So I'll leave it as I took your post and tried to make a joke out of it.
     
  14. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Does not compute.
     
    ImNotAStarWarsFanboy likes this.
  15. CaptainRex115

    CaptainRex115 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Ten out of Ten. Great duel between Maul and Pre Vizsla, Although it was sad to lose Vizsla he was one of my favorites. Bringing back the old Prime Minister was unexpected and good. Second best episode in this Mandalore/Maul Trio
     
    rumblewagon likes this.
  16. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    I've never liked Favreau's voice for Vizsla, but I just try to overlook it.
     
  17. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2011
    I just hate smiley emoticons. Ascii only. =b
     
  18. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    52 votes for an average score of 8.56.
     
    AkashKedavra_93 likes this.
  19. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I thought we were in the minority in hating this one, so I'm not too surprised. I expected an average of 8 or above.
     
  20. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Just watched it again, yes. Fun and then some. Vizla did not die like a punk, the duel was too short, but soo smooth that I find it hard to complain about anything in this eppy. Fun hides the blemishes. Plus, Mando Maul is epic on a whole other level. 10/10
     
  21. MistrX

    MistrX Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2006
    9/10. One of the show's best duels, Vizsla gets a very fitting sendoff. Thought the beginning was a little sloppy, though, and I think this show has often had scale problems. But very good episode, nearly a 10 thanks to that ending.