TCW Episode Grade the Episode: S05E15: Shades of Reason

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Seerow, Feb 3, 2013.

?

Rate this episode please...

10/10 24 vote(s) 43.6%
9/10 14 vote(s) 25.5%
8/10 8 vote(s) 14.5%
7/10 4 vote(s) 7.3%
6/10 1 vote(s) 1.8%
5/10 1 vote(s) 1.8%
4/10 0 vote(s) 0.0%
3/10 1 vote(s) 1.8%
2/10 0 vote(s) 0.0%
1/10 2 vote(s) 3.6%
  1. SkywalkerSquadron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2013
    star 4
    I gave it an 8/10. I just didn't hold my interest as well as Eminence and The Lawless, although it was extremely good.
    Last edited by SkywalkerSquadron, Feb 7, 2013
  2. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    I'm also going with an 8, more for how that fits in relation to other episodes I've rated 7, 8, and 9 than anything else.
  3. Mr. Atom Bomb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    Giving it a 5, and that's generous.

    Maul vs. Vizla was incredibly well choreographed in my opinion, but the fact that an entire planetary wide government was toppled in a few minutes by a known terrorist organization will never be alright with me. The only proof that the people are offered that Death Watch isn't behind the attacks is Vizla saying "Nope, that's not us." Where I could enjoy The Lawless for spectacle alone, this one had me groaning the entire time over how over simple they made the political implications of an entirely new rule. Not okay.

    [...Seriously though, I timed it, and within six minutes of the criminals arriving Satine confesses that the people are "on their side now." :rolleyes: ]

    This had so much potential, but...
    [IMG]
    Last edited by Mr. Atom Bomb, Feb 8, 2013
    JackG, CT-867-5309 and Darth_Zandalor like this.
  4. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    @Mr. Atom Bomb that would be a more compelling point if they didn't have the montage of civilians being attacked by various criminals and being saved by Death Watch. If I went through that experience or even saw it happen to someone else, my attitude about them would change pretty quickly too (not that I think it's supposed to be a literal six minutes in-universe).
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  5. Team Padme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    9/10. This episode was utterly amazing. It was the best TCW episode of S5 and one of the best episodes ever. Easily the best in the arc.
    rumblewagon likes this.
  6. Mr. Atom Bomb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    As far as I'm concerned they went from being bonafide terrorists to "Saviors! We owe them our lives!" [ [face_frustrated] ] in far too short a time span, in-universe or out, for it to be believable. In every appearance prior to this one they've been publicly gunning for the Duchess and have been trying to usurp her rule, and yet the Mandalorian populace just changes its apparently singular opinion of them after a few quick saves? They bombed that park and killed civilians while broadcasting that it was their own work. It just doesn't sit right with me that in a few short years the people have forgotten that. In the real world if an insurgent cell set off a bomb and then a year or two later stopped a bank robbery in the same city I don't think all would be forgotten so easily.

    Basically what I'm trying to say is that the montage was nowhere near enough to sell the point for me that they went from terrorists to heroes worthy of a grand rally in a matter of days(?). It felt condensed and contrived, and honestly I hated it. You're allowed to feel otherwise, but I cannot take that montage and Vizla's thirty second speech as enough to topple a government, pacifist or otherwise.
  7. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    It felt quick to me too, but I think the reason you take issue with it is the same reason why it didn't bother me - thinking about how people would react if this were a situation in real life. (With one importance being I think it would be very unreasonable to assume that before this episode the entire populace of Mandalore had the same political views of Death Watch.) I don't give people that much credit. There are examples from human history and modern politics (U.S. presidential "kill list" is a perfect example currently in the news) where people either consider certain personal beliefs core to their society being civilized while simultaneously engaging in acts that run counter to those professed beliefs, or (like the kill list) where a certain portion of the population takes a particular core personal belief when one side is in charge only to abandon it altogether when another side is put in charge. Unfortunately, people are lemmings. And to touch on the other point again for a moment, I don't think all Mandalorians are all about politics and have die-hard core political beliefs. There are some who think ill of Death Watch, some who don't, and a whole lot in between who don't realize how important it is to even give a damn. From that viewpoint, the takeover is not nearly as farfetched as the rushed montage might make it feel. It's also significant that Death Watch was a domestic organization considered to be terrorists by some rather than an outside threat, all the easier to manipulate the less politically aware bulk of the populace into rallying behind them. Looking at how humans behave in real life, it's not just plausible but fully likely that there are some people who considered themselves pacifists when Satine was in charge and everything was fine who went to being Death Watch supporters once they saw their friends and family being killed and Death Watch were playing the role of the heroes Satine refused to play.
    Last edited by Dark Lord Tarkas, Feb 8, 2013
    QuangoFett and rumblewagon like this.
  8. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    DLT, ever hear of paragraphs? Make them your friend. ;) (Sorry, though by and large I agree with you.)

    I think the takeover could have been a bit better executed if shown in a montage sort of way - lots of quick flashes here and there, some way to indicating a bit of the scope of the incidents - but it's all implied so I can live with it. I imagine it something like 50 American cities getting bombed, etc. all at once - the terror of the people would lead to a lot of irrationality and a grasping at any hope of "salvation."
  9. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    Soren Kierkegaard wrote in an intentionally dense fashion because he believed that anything worth understanding shouldn't come easy but have to be worked towards. I like Kierkegaard.

    EDIT: In order to convey my sincerity in this post as less than 100%, I'll add an emoticon:

    :p
    Last edited by Dark Lord Tarkas, Feb 8, 2013
  10. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Your paragraph was like eight sentences, all based on the same topic. Classic rules of writing say that's not only fine, but dandy.

    I tend to break my comments up solely for the purpose of making it easier on the eyes, but I don't expect others to break their writing habits for me.
  11. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Yeah, but 16 lines on a computer screen is a bit tough on OLD eyes like mine.

    And I thought I was being, well, "polite' since I added my emoticon to soften it from a "oh gee" to an "oh, gee." And then I apologized.

    :D

    Eh, back to the topic - what's that again?
  12. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I do not use emoticons. Emoticons imply that I possess emotions. I do not. That is all.
  13. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    You're a, cough, "Jedi" then, according to some. I'd elaborate, a tiny bit, but it might go astray even with an emoticon. So I'll leave it as I took your post and tried to make a joke out of it.
  14. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
  15. CaptainRex115 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2013
    star 3
    Ten out of Ten. Great duel between Maul and Pre Vizsla, Although it was sad to lose Vizsla he was one of my favorites. Bringing back the old Prime Minister was unexpected and good. Second best episode in this Mandalore/Maul Trio
    rumblewagon likes this.
  16. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I've never liked Favreau's voice for Vizsla, but I just try to overlook it.
  17. Seerow SWTV★Mod

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    I just hate smiley emoticons. Ascii only. =b
  18. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    52 votes for an average score of 8.56.
    AkashKedavra_93 likes this.
  19. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I thought we were in the minority in hating this one, so I'm not too surprised. I expected an average of 8 or above.
  20. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Just watched it again, yes. Fun and then some. Vizla did not die like a punk, the duel was too short, but soo smooth that I find it hard to complain about anything in this eppy. Fun hides the blemishes. Plus, Mando Maul is epic on a whole other level. 10/10
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Feb 15, 2013
  21. MistrX Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    9/10. One of the show's best duels, Vizsla gets a very fitting sendoff. Thought the beginning was a little sloppy, though, and I think this show has often had scale problems. But very good episode, nearly a 10 thanks to that ending.