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CT Grand Moff Tarkin Out Ranks Vader?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Alessandro Sanfilippo, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. Alessandro Sanfilippo

    Alessandro Sanfilippo Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2013
    Just re saw Episode 4 yesterday, last time I saw it was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

    I noticed some stuff that I didnt realized.

    Peter Cushing is a bad ass, he doesnt take crap from Vader.

    Vader obeys him like a lap dog.

    Examples
    Vader is choking some random guy, Peter Cushing tells him to stop, he stops.

    Peter Cushing tells Vader to get Lei to the death star bridge he brings her.

    So why Does Vader takes orders from this guy?

    I tought Dart Sidious was the Emeperor Sumpre Leader and Vader was Second on Command.

    Doesnt seem like that
     
    andresfelix likes this.
  2. Garrett Atkins

    Garrett Atkins Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Tarkin outranks Vader, not Peter Cushing.
     
  3. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Tarkin is in charge of the Death Star project and is a high ranking Imperial officer and governor. But Vader is Palpatine's right hand man. It isn't so much that Tarkin outranks Vader, but that there is a form of mutual respect. Vader lets Motti live, because he made his point without having to kill him. Tarkin, on the other hand, never really orders Vader around. He just tells him to let Motti go. In fact, Tarkin even goes along with Vader's plan to let the Falcon go, so it could be used to find the Rebel base.
     
  4. chaos9001

    chaos9001 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Also it has to do with the fact that Tarkin is in charge of that particular Battle station. I they were all on the Executor than Vader would most likely do as he pleased. That same respect did not translate to Jerjerrod in ROTJ because Vader was specifically sent by Palpatine to oversee Jerjerrod, making him out rank him even in his own battle station.
     
  5. Alessandro Sanfilippo

    Alessandro Sanfilippo Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2013
    Then why does Lei tells him that he is holding Vader Leash?

    Princess Leia Organa: Governor Tarkin. I should have expected to find you holding Vader's leash. I recognized your foul stench when I was brought onboard.
    Wilhuff Tarkin: Charming to the last. You don't know how hard I found it, signing the order to terminate your life.
     
  6. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Maybe in the Empire military leaders still have to answer to political ones near the top of the tree?

    Vader's referred to as the Emperor's second-in-command in post-Clone Wars material like the Dark Times comic series, but that may be in a military rather than political sense.
     
  7. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Technically, I think Vader was still little more than a bodyguard and enforcement agent at the time of SW/ANH, albeit one very close to the Emperor - after the destruction of the Death Star he was promoted to head of the Imperial Fleet, as the situation had escalated to full-blown civil war.
    The dissolution of the Senate would also have caused a lot of authority to shift across the military and political landscape.

    So yes, Tarkin - a regional governor and military leader - would have 'out-ranked' Vader during SW/ANH, certainly aboard the battle station he was in charge of. Vader mightn't have a had a military rank at all.
     
  8. CT1138

    CT1138 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Indeed. Peter Cushing outranks them both :p
    [​IMG]
    He's fought ghostly hounds of false origin
    He's evaded Daleks... while courting beautiful women
    He's hunted the most dangerous of vampires
    He's tangled with the undead itself
    He is... the most interesting Moff in the Galaxy.
    Cushing: "I don't always blow up Alderaan, but when I do, it's just for kicks."

    Nah, but seriously, I figured that Tarkin always saw himself as superior to everybody; he had that arrogance about him. He's in the Emperor's front pocket, and so holds high prestige and command within the Imperial hierarchy. He's probably able to tell Vader what to do simply because he's such a highly regard man, and so Vader really has no choice but to respect him. Also, taking TCW into consideration, Anakin Skywalker already thought highly of Tarkin and his ideals, so that respect likely carried over with Darth Vader.
     
  9. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    In Dark Times: book 6, he's referred to by the media as "The Emperor's second in command"

    In Brian Wood's In The Shadow of Yavin comic book (recently published, set right after ANH) - Palpatine explicitly states Vader's been demoted from Supreme Commander thanks to his failure at Yavin.
     
  10. TX-20

    TX-20 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 21, 2013
    If you ignore everything that came after, then yes, Tarkin outranks Vader.
     
  11. vw_jedi

    vw_jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2002
    Because until the dissolution of the Senate, it was business as usual in the Republic/Empire. Tarkin was a high ranking Moff, which is an actual position in the Empire. The general populace of the Galaxy has no real knowledge of the Sith, or what a Sith Lord is. I take it that Vader and the Emperor himself kept the Force stuff on the down low for many years. This is evidenced by Motti's lack of understanding of the consequences for questioning the Force to Vader.
     
  12. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    Because she's insulting Vader and Tarkin, in one sentence. Tarkin and Vader both had military rank, but Palpatine's desire was to have them work together so as to keep the other in line.
     
  13. vw_jedi

    vw_jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2002
    Out of curiosity, what was Vader's military rank?

    His personal SD had an Admiral aboard. Albeit they were all practically figureheads, but they held the rank of Admiral. Was it Supreme Commander?
     
  14. Grievousdude

    Grievousdude Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2013
    But going by TESB Vader seems to have more command.
     
  15. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I see it as him being Supreme Commander from post-RoTS to ANH (with The Emperor requesting that he follow Tarkin's lead when on the Death Star) - a short period with him reduced in rank after ANH- and returning to the post of Supreme Commander after the Emperor thinks Vader's been humiliated enough.
     
  16. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    While the EU has certain say, I believe that Vader didn't have a rank. Dooku didn't have one either. They were given a lot of freedom because of Palpatine, who was the only one to outrank everyone.
     
  17. Airdave Jedi

    Airdave Jedi Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jul 27, 2013
    I don't think Vader is as important yet in ANH. None of the officers on his Star Destroyer or on the Death Star seem the least bit intimidated by him. They talk back to him. Maybe he hasn't built up his ruthless reputation yet.

    Of course a lot of this may stem from the fact that Lucas wasn't expecting Vader to be as popular as he was, so maybe he beefed up Vader's evil quotient in the other two films.

    Kind of strange if the entire saga is supposed to be the rise, fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. :rolleyes:
     
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  18. Darth Raiden

    Darth Raiden Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2013

    The officers like the emperor were over confident and arrogant, Motti being an example thinking that the force was just some ancient religion (thanks to lack of jedi and probable propaganda) which led to him being pwned. Whats funny is aside from Tarkin nobody actually dare to insult Vader, in the original draft Tagge himself was worried about the emperor hiring this "sith lord". As for Vader, I look at him as a lackey, a scary one but a lackey none the les when you look at from a saga pov, you see how far he's fallen. Here this once noble jedi knight trying to fight for a good cause has turned out to be this monter full of hate and anger. Torturing his daughter and indirectly helping in the destruction of her home planet. Vader in ANH imo shows him at his most ruthless, well there and TESB.
     
  19. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 5, 2013
    I always considered Vader a sort of civilian commander over the Imperial Military. In other words, he has no military rank but he's running the show. In E4, he and Tarkin seem to be equals and friends (at least, insofar as two eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil people can be friends with each other). But the E4 Vader doesn't inspire the fear and terror in the Imperial Officers that E5 Vader does.
     
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  20. vw_jedi

    vw_jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2002
    That's more or less what I said in my initial post. I felt like Vader wasn't really allowed to go nuts until the Senate was dissolved. Then the gloves came off. By the time of ESB he is very feared among the Imperial ranks.
     
  21. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 5, 2013
    The Circle is now Complete. :D
     
  22. Alessandro Sanfilippo

    Alessandro Sanfilippo Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2013
    I dont think Vader was even nesesary on Ep4, the only important think he does is "kill obi wan"
     
  23. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 2013
    The Imperial hierarchy has always been... questionable. I've repeatedly heard that Tarkin seems to outrank Vader in ANH, but I always figured that Vader just chose to listen to Tarkin. And then there's those people in purple who are seen with Palps in ROTJ...
     
  24. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    I believe on the 2004 DVD ANH commentary, Lucas says something about the hierarchy being vague as far as where Vader fits relative to the Moffs, since they are all united in fear to Palpatine, but that it kind of blurs after that.

    Vader was in charge of the Super Star Destroyer Executor, so his treatment of people like Ozzel is his own business, since they are his subordinates on his own ship or in his own fleet.

    When it comes to people like Tagge, Motti, Tarkin, Yularen, etc. I think it begins to blur a little bit.

    People like Piett are the "yes, my Lord" types. They clearly respect Vader and his rank and are clearly subordinate to Vader. Motti and Tagge squabbled like peers, neither seemed to respect the rank of the other. And Motti talked back to Vader and didn't seem to think he warranted any kind of respect. Vader choked Motti to make a point, but I don't think he had any intention of actually killing him.

    And Jerjerrod, while he didn't command the same respect from Vader as Tarkin, still complained and spoke very informally to Vader, which makes me think that Vader didn't necessarily outrank him. Jerjerrod clearly feared the Emperor and shut up as soon as Vader mentioned that Palpatine would be coming to the Death Star, but prior to that Jerjerrod was venting his frustrations very informally -- not befitting a subordinate talking to a superior (which makes me think that Vader was not formally Jerjerrod's superior).

    So I do somewhat see a blurred line among where the authority of high ranking Grand Moffs, Moffs, and Admirals sit in authority relative to Vader.

    In the 2013 Star Wars comic, Vader is demoted following the destruction of the Death Star and loses command of the I.S.D Devastator with the ship passing to the authority of an non-Force using Admiral. So if you choose to abide by the comic's depiction, Vader is subject to the same promotions and demotions as any other Imperial officer.

    Palpatine then tells Vader that he senses Vader's anger at this demotion but that Palpatine does not place much importance on rank, but rather on those that can get results. Thus who has authority over who might vary from instance to instance depending on who is in the Emperor's favor(?)
     
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  25. TOSCHESTATION

    TOSCHESTATION Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2003
    [face_thinking]


    The "Artist Formerly Known as Prince" Palpatine's entourage....
     
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