CT Grand Moff Tarkin Out Ranks Vader?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Alessandro Sanfilippo, Oct 14, 2013.

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  1. JEDI-RISING Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2005
    star 3
    Vader and Tarkin's relationship and power has always been a bit of a mystery. Obviously they had power in the Empire from the beginning, but also probably had their own projects to oversee that didn't conflict with one another, so they never saw each other as rivals.
  2. Lord TW Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2012
    star 2
    I always thought of Vader as the visiting SVP from the corporate office, and Tarkin as the long-entrenched divisional VP, who grew up in the organization when it was quite decentralized (as they consolidated power in the galaxy). But by ANH, when Tarkin reports the Senate has been disbanded and regional governors will take over, it's clear power is being centralized (one regional governor being more loyal to the Emperor than multiple senators in many systems under a region). So naturally, by ESB, Bader, as part of the corporate team, has gained more power.

    I.e.,
    Division VP oversees several Regional VPs/governors, who in turn oversee several local managers/senators.
    Corporate SVP technically outranks DVP, but out of respect, doesn't really push him around in front of his people.

    I worked at Comcast (yes, I know...that's why I left), where this structure persisted, and over time, they did centralize. Corporate, divisional, regional, and local all maneuvered around each other. It was hyper-political.
  3. Firmus Jagdon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2013
    star 1
    Tarkin was smarter than Vader, at least military wise, shrewd and non-emotional.
    Which is why he's pissed off all through ESB.
  4. Firmus Jagdon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2013
    star 1
    Not a big surprise, he's there at the ending on Revenge of the Sith. Tarkin too was a spy for the Emperor. Anything he noticed, he would tell. He was paired up with Vader because Palpatine did not trust Vader alone, probably scared of him... he needed a cool, smart military head to keep him from going off...
    Last edited by Firmus Jagdon, Dec 3, 2013
  5. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Is that why Tarkin blew up Alderaan on a whim? Is that why Tarkin ignored the info given to him by his subordinates, thinking the Death Star indestructible? Is that why he did nothing to stop the Rebel attack, thinking it hopeless, while Vader by his own initiative went out to stop them?
    TOSCHESTATION likes this.
  6. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    He was a good leader, but he was not above being arrogant. Just like the other Imperial officers in the conference room. Lucas made an interesting note throughout the films. In the PT, it is the Jedi who are arrogant of the dangers facing them. In the OT, it is Palpatine and the Imperial officers who are arrogant.
  7. Sith-Mullet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2003
    star 3
    Tarkin is the brains, Vader is the braun.
    JediKnightOB1 likes this.
  8. SenatorJarJarBinks Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2013
    Vader seems to me sort of like a bad-ass SS/Gestapo/KGB type guy. I feel like he gets a mission (i.e wipe out the Jedi, retrieve the death star plans) and then he uses resources to get the job done.
    When there's the whole "I find your lack of faith disturbing" scene, Vader does not have a seat around the table. Why? Because he's not within the ranking of the Imperial Navy/regional governor like the others. He's part of another branch. It's like in Nazi Germany, you had the regular army and the SS. The SS was an elite unit (like Vader) that still used regular German army resources when necessary. So, Vader is techincally working under Tarkin, but only temporarily as an agent to find the stolen plans. idk...thats just my 2 cents.
  9. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    That's an interesting way of looking at it.

    In some sources, Vader is characterized as Palpatine's "right-hand man".
  10. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    Yes, Sir Peter Cushing outranks both Tarkin and Vader as he was a real man and a sweetheart. [face_love]
    TX-20 likes this.
  11. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    It was the lavender scent that won people over. And the slippers...
  12. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    Not for me it wasn't. What won me was Christopher's testimony, Peter's honesty, gentleness, his soft speech, transparency, vulnerabity, his almost other age manners, and his deep set soulful eyes.
    TX-20 likes this.
  13. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    I had assumed that the Death Star was simply Tarkin's command. If Tarkin had been aboard the Devastator, Vader would be the one in command.
  14. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Leia does speak of Tarkin "holding Vader's leash" - but that may not be an accurate picture of who's "higher-ranking" in the Emperor's eyes.
  15. dolphin Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 1999
    star 4
    It is clear that Vader respects Tarkin. They do after all have a lengthy history of working together for the Emperor but who was ranked higher? In other words, was Tarkin in danger of being force-choked by Vader if he disobeyed or disrespected Vader? How would you characterize Tarkin's relationship with Palpatine?
  16. SithHorseman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2002
    star 1
    I think anyone was in danger of being force-choked by Vader. He force-choked his wife, cut off his son's hand and even hurled the Emperor down a chasm.
  17. dolphin Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 1999
    star 4
    Did Tarkin have reason to fear him? Was Vader his superior or was he outside Palpatine's military chain of command (thus it doesn't make sense to compare ranks)?
  18. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
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    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Mod action: Merging with earlier thread on same topic and correcting earlier thread title
  19. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    That's an interesting question. It may depend on which sources you look at.

    In the OT Visual Dictionary, Vader is portrayed as having risen to power in the Empire via being "Tarkin's right-hand-man"

    Post-prequel works, however, tend to put them in separate chains of command- possibly with Tarkin, early on in the Empire, being a mere "Governor" or "Moff" - thus, the kind of person Vader's portrayed as Force-Choking when they get above themselves. And Vader portrayed as Supreme Commander of the Imperial military (Tarkin rose to the rank of Admiral in the Republic military in the TCW series) - so maybe he would have reported to Vader for a while afterward, before transferring to political governorship.

    By ANH though, Tarkin was "Grand Moff" ruling a huge swathe of Imperial territory.

    With the Emperor giving Vader orders to "report to Tarkin" for the duration of operations aboard the Death Star.
  20. ObiAlKenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2012
    star 2
    Tarkin was a great character and I wish he was explored more in the prequels.

    I always saw him as technically second in command of the Imperial Forces under the Emperor. Vader just had to suck it up and deal with that fact since it was his Master's decision.
    Dooku-Darklighter likes this.
  21. dolphin Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 1999
    star 4
    I've always assumed Darth Vader alone chased down the last remaining Jedi during the purge in-between ROTJ and TPM. Maybe Tarkin had a role to play too in hunting Jedi (while overseeing construction of the Death Star(s))
  22. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    The 1977 Star Wars film makes sense when understood in isolation from everything that came after it.

    In the '77 film, Darth Vader is basically an arrogant bounty hunter employed by Tarkin to retrieve the Death Star data tapes. In other words, he was the original film's Boba Fett.
    Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn likes this.
  23. fuzzbox77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2008
    star 1
    Never count on the supposed blessings of the EU and what tried to redefine the original writings opposed to licensed fan fiction under guidelines...

    Originally, Vader wasn't going to be the principal villain (despite numerous claims) and he was originally Tarkin's henchman as we hear by dialogue in the film. This was before anything was utilized in the promotion and during photography - Vader stood out above the rest in image alone. Then it became something more. "The Star Wars" drafts were shelved away, an iconic figure was born upon release and that is why people get confused.

    The regional governers had direct control. They only answered to the Emporer. Vader was a pawn of the Empire and not the Jedi hunter he once was. He had power, he had presence. But if you look at all of the other ranking officers in the film - they don't have the fear in them when in the Dark Lords' presence unlike the rest of the Imperial Militarians in TESB or ROTJ.

    Vader was there to oversee the operations of the Death Star and any threats, hence the theft of the Death Star data tapes, the chase for them aboard the Devastator in the original film and the military base was that battle station.

    Read the original novelisation by George, um - sorry - adaption ghost written by Alan Dean Foster. That will give you a little more clarity and how things were originally concieved not how they were later re-written upon Star Wars' initial success in preparation for it's sequel and then the novelized rebirth with the second Expanded Universe from 1991 onwards which changed things again.
    Last edited by fuzzbox77, Jan 10, 2014
  24. CommanderDrenn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2013
    star 4
    I am still pretty sure that the Emperor placed the Death Star and Vader under Tarkin's command. I don't know where, but I have a strong memory of reading this somewhere.
  25. son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
    Pretty sure Vader took orders from Tarkin on the Death Star only. Off that battle station Vader would've been calling all the shots.
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