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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Gray Davis and California Recall results thread

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Thena, Jul 16, 2003.

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  1. Darth Mischievous

    Darth Mischievous Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 12, 1999
    I simply must disagree with that rhetoric posted above, L_D_V.

    The Democrats have been entirely in control of California for years, especially in the legislature.

    Davis, along with the legislature, have run up a bill on exorbitant spending that cannot keep up with tax revenue. So, what did they do? Things like tripling the car tax.

    Also, signing a bill allowing illegal immigrants driver's liscenses didn't help Davis either.

    Republicans cooking the books? Nah.

    A great percentage of Davis' own party wanted to throw him out as California is a Democratic state by a large margin. Arnold would have never won without a large crossover vote, which he did obtain.
     
  2. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Which was precisely because he was a moderate, and a Bonapartist at that.

    Had he been as conservative as McClintock, the Democrat majority in CA would've never voted for him.

    My parents are both registered democrats, and were leerly of Schwarzenegger 'til the very end. They voted for him at that end because they realized he was better than the alternatives--and that he was a Republican who wasn't unpalatable to them.
     
  3. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    Todays headlines read:

    CALIFORNIA GETS DRUNK AT PARTY, WAKES UP WITH MONSTER HEADACHE, NAKED IN BED WITH ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER
     
  4. TripleB

    TripleB Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2000
    Joe said

    How so? I don't recall the state itself setting up a 24-hour national television network or a newspaper organization devoted solely to broadcasting and delivering up to the minute information on the so called Trial of the Century.

    HUH!!!! YOu don't remember the 24 hour coverage all day of the OJ Trial? Of it being on EVERY CHANNEL? Of every talk show host in the state talking about nothing else BUT the OJ Trial??



    And if you're referring to the eventual outcome, injustices happen in our nation's court rooms all the time, it is not a phenomenom associated solely with California.

    I am refering to the entire trial, from the time it happened, to the time of the verdict. WHat planet are you living on to not remember all that??
     
  5. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    I agree with Darth Mischievous here LDV and ask for some clarification with what is clearly rhetoric....

    As for the comment about illegal aliens receiveing drivers licenses:

    For someone being in Law Enforcement, it will be easier for me to track them and identify the criminal elements.


    What exactly is your postion in "law enforcement?"

    First of all, do the members of your department assume every undocumented alien is a criminal? That is a dangerous assumption to make, but I bet you keep your city litigation lawyer busy..

    The problem we have in Chicago with this, is that providing licenses to undocumented workers, is just that...There is no way to accurately verify the information..

    What we experience is usually 1 person will get a valid license, and then multiple undocumented aliens will use that information to get their own license.

    Since this group usually doesn't have a birth certicate or social security number, the DMV has to rely on things like electric bills proving an address..It is extremely unreliable..

    Livescan instant finger printing is much more valuable than simply trusting a license..

    It just requires more work to figure out though, above the typical "cuff and stuff" mentality...

    Secondly, I don't think I have ever seen a statement that is filled with more unsubstaniated paranoia than this:

    and I am sure this also means less law enforcement officers on the street. So, for those who support and voted for Arnold, don't be suprised if/when you need a cop because someone has broken into your house and is still there, someone is stealing your car, your husband is beating your brains in, or someone is outside your door in the middle of the night with the intentions of rapping you, the response time will be instead of 2 minutes - 20 minutes. I have seen this happen folks. First responder's funds are usually the first to get cut.

    First of all, no police offcier should ever be making a statement like this..

    I know I became a police officer to represent my community..If I don't make $80,000 dollars doing that, I'm not going to try any less..

    Secondly, since 9/11, I don't know of any law enforcement agency that has had its funding reduced, in fact, I know ours has been increased..

    But the bottom line is that you don't need a brand new patrol car to still do your job..

    I would at least wait and see what Arnold's policies are going to be..He does have an excellent team in place...


     
  6. GarthSchmader

    GarthSchmader Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Todays headlines read:

    CALIFORNIA GETS DRUNK AT PARTY, WAKES UP WITH MONSTER HEADACHE, NAKED IN BED WITH ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER


    [face_laugh] J, you hit the nail on the head.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    Otherwise....boooooooooooooooo.
     
  7. sellars1996

    sellars1996 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2002
    The whole thing epitomizes the complete-dumbing down of American politics. Elections have become a three ring circus and a reality show complete with scantily clad women, cheerleaders, and clever slogans. Why have a serious debate on issues when you can have porn stars flashing their thonged behinds on TV?

    When the electorate has such a short attention span that politicians have to resort to sex to get noticed, and when candidates run as a joke, this country is in trouble. Big trouble.
     
  8. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Yeah, BOO!

    Arnold wants to balance the budget and reduce taxes on MIDDLE and WORKING-CLASS AUTO OWNERS who pay $1,000 per car registration.

    Yeah BOO!

    [face_plain]
     
  9. Red-Seven

    Red-Seven Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 1999
    Hate to say it, but the only way to balence CA is to levy more taxes on the middle class. It was the exemption of vast swaths of the middle class from State income tax during the bubble that put CA into a fiscal mess once the economy came down to earth. It was a cyclical effect, exacerbated by taxation policy.
     
  10. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001
    That car tax is insane, you could buy a fairly sporty computer for that. Plus, don't you pay like....4,000 dollars on your car to begin with or something? If that's the case, then yeah, that tax has to go. I wouldn't start calling Schwartzenegger a failure just yet, give him a chance before you call him such.
     
  11. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Well, I'd say the tripling of the car tax has to go, not the tax in its entirety.
     
  12. GarthSchmader

    GarthSchmader Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2003
    I'm no fan of unreasonable taxation, which may suprise some of you. But do you really think that any urban (or sub-) Californian needs any MORE reason to get out on the road. Transit in CA is riddled with problems. Where will the money for fixing roads, public transit, and research on alternative fueling methods come from?
     
  13. Red-Seven

    Red-Seven Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 1999
  14. GarthSchmader

    GarthSchmader Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2003
    You would be right, if the name only continued to refer to that incident; but it does not. What it refers to, on the whole, is a support of progressive policies and politics. Good try, Red-Seven...I almost agreed with you.
     
  15. DeathStar1977

    DeathStar1977 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2003
    Question...

    Maybe I missed it, but where were all the know-it-all celebrities when it came to speaking out against the recall? Is it because Davis was unpopular and they didn't want to upset their fellow entertainer Ahnold? They were more than happy to speak out against the war, giving us their 'expert' opinion on foreign policy.

    As I said in the 'elections' thread, I went to the DNC meeting last week. In speaking to a few of the supporters there, some told me that a few of the candidates HATE going to Hollywood to campaign for money because they are forced to succumb to hours of policy lectures.

    All right, I went off topic a bit there. :)

    So will there be a recall movement against Arnold? [face_mischief] I heard that Britney Spears wants to run for Governor.

    Regarding Ahnold's sexual harrassment allegations...I feel about them as I did about Clinton's...innocent until proven guilty.
     
  16. Lord_Darth_Vader

    Lord_Darth_Vader Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2001
    I simply must disagree with that rhetoric posted above, L_D_V.

    LOL [face_laugh] Good one!



    Mr 44...

    What exactly is your postion in "law enforcement?"

    First of all, do the members of your department assume every undocumented alien is a criminal? That is a dangerous assumption to make, but I bet you keep your city litigation lawyer busy..


    You don't know anything about California laws. A cop here has practically got to be a lawyer to be a cop. Our laws are so complex that other states send their recruits here to join our academies to learn. I knew two men from Texas and Oklahoma who were sent here to learn complex law and how to use it in law enforcement. There were also two men from England in my academy for the same reason. So to answer your question - No we don't keep our litigation lawyers busy here. We are intelligent enough to know how to implement the law without getting our bosses pissed at us. That maybe so in Chicago, but not here.

    Obvisouly, you have never worked in a heavy migrate farm workers area. I do. Alot of the dreggs of society hide out in farming camps to hide from the law as well as the INS. I have worked along side the INS in tracking down felony illegals wanted for assault and battery, rape, theft, etc. In fact the INS just made another sweep through central and northern California last month. Comments from the INS say it would help them in their efforts to catch the offenders if there were more documentation.


    And until you have been one of only three Deputies on duty at midnight, in a county of a population of 102,000, due to budget cuts, I suggest you not insult my comment. I have, several times. Slow response times are a way of life here during budget crunches. And $80,000??? I can only dream of making half that much working for my Dept. Trust me Mr 44, I didn't get into Law Enforcement for the money. I got into it because I wanted to help people, not just to "represent my community." It's ironic that I live in one of the wealthiest counties in California and my Dept still can't get laptops for all its cars, and uplinks to the DMV so we don't have to rely on/burden the dispatchers.

    The county is a farming county north of the state capital of California, in a heavily east indian populated area. In India, the husband has the right to hit his wife. Here, you may not. The men don't relize that, and are surprised when you place them in cuffs and take them to jail. I hate wife beaters with a passion. Response times are important here. Ever felt helpless doing 100 MPH trying to get to someone on the other side of the county, who needs your help? Until you have, don't insult me.

    There are alot of marshlands as well as farmlands here, and due to the geographical location of it, next to Sac County, alot of drug deals, murders, sexual assaults happen here.

    So Mr44, until there is a time when you role up on a car, by yourself, in the middle of marshland, at 1AM, see 5 heads pop up, the 10-28-29 comes back stolen, and your back up while you hold these 5 at gun point is 15 away, and that is the CHP, don't insult or preach to me! That is an exact scenario I have went through in the past.

    [side note: When the CHP officers and I finally yanked out the five, we found 2 pounds of Meth, and several hand guns in the vehicle. I rolled up on a potential drug deal.]

    I have been with my Dept for over 8 years, and still am the only Democrat at that Dept. My opinions about Arnold are just that, mine. And as a right wingiest fanatic has stated, this country is about the freedom of opinion - Rush Limbaugh. So if it's okay for the right, then it's okay for the left.

    I once thought Arnold was the best, and probably would have gave him more credit in a real election. But, since he decided to partake in an dirty election, I have no respect for him any longer. An illegitimate election has produced a b*****d as California's new leader. Davis had never done anything crimminal against the Constitution of California, nor the US. If anything, he is guilty of bad m
     
  17. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    Now that Arnold's in power, he's still going to have to contend with the fact that the governor of California has no power. He can have Warren Buffet whisper words of fiscal wisdom into his ear from now until SkyNet sets off a global thermonuclear war, but he's still not going to accomplish anything.
     
  18. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    well, I don't want to get into too much law enforcement specific information in this thread, simply for topic's sake( and yes, I work the midnight shift too, just in an urban area)

    I will acknowledge the reputation of the CHP acamdemy..

    I went through the ISP academy myself, and while we were always told it was #2 in the nation, CHP is ranked as #1.. Anyway:

    But I think the driver's license issue is one of the reasons that Davis was recalled, so let us focus on that and at least try and stay on topic..

    I still don't see how providing licenses to anyone without proper documentation is going to create a valid database for anyone to track anything..

    While not located in a migrant heavy area as you, I have seen enough of those consular ID cards to give me headaches..

    The danger arises from the fact that there is very liitle requirement of accuracy to recieve those..

    If you then allow someone to use a fictious ID to recieve an offcial US state license, you open an entire can of worms.

    I'm not concerned about promoting standards of driver education, I am concerned about the unintended result of allowing people the access to change their identity..

    Davis had good intentions in adopting such a policy, but it was extremely shortsighted..
     
  19. DeathStar1977

    DeathStar1977 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2003
    Now that Arnold's in power, he's still going to have to contend with the fact that the governor of California has no power.

    Care to elaborate on this?
     
  20. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    The governorship of California is weakly structured, compared to many other states. It's an inherently weak executive position.
     
  21. Lord_Darth_Vader

    Lord_Darth_Vader Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2001
    To receive a license here, you have to be finger printed, which allows alot more information in the data bases here. And its not to say that we would rely on that information soley. What information is 'not' there is what we concentrate on here in 'little Bombay, and Tijuana.' (Yes that is what we have been nicknamed) ;)

    The ability to divide and separate the ones legally obtained and not. Finger printing is becoming alot more popular here in the Golden State. It is another resource the patrol Deputies have at their disposal. If You are not in the data base as obtaining a drivers license, then the INS will be notified and other processes will be started.

    And the DMV will have new stipulations on obtaining licenses here.

    This all would not happen over night, but in time, it would be another resource for the officer to use. And with licenses, we no longer would deal with consular id's. Yes, i have seen some of those that have made me laugh hard. It would allow California to get hard nosed with illegals.
     
  22. Deadpool

    Deadpool Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2002
    It's crazy stuff like this that make me think my Idea for a Political Trade School Aren't So far off.

    I'm look at it, you need training in almost any job to start...but not politics...why?


    You ask me we need a school where people who want a career in politics have to go to learn how things work. the higher the posistion the higher the degree you'll need. the higher you go the more mental testing as well.
    *Economics
    *World Culture
    *Regional Clashes
    *Etc etc you get the idea.

    (mind you this is the short version of my idea)

    but really you need a permit to fish but any dork can be Mayor, or for that matter President *cough*Bush*cough* ..whew sorry had to clear my throat.

    I've had various jobs in my life and all of them had something I had to learn upfront before getting started.


    naturally this brings me to point out that I'am running for President in 2008..like I said any dork can run (and win it seems) so why not make the insane choice in 08..ME!

     
  23. Lord_Darth_Vader

    Lord_Darth_Vader Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2001
    Hear! Hear! Deadpool!
     
  24. andakin

    andakin Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2000
    Deadpool,

    Are you familiar with the idea of English "Public Schools"? They're not open to everyone; they're actually private schools to train people for public office. As far as I understand, historically, (up until recently with the labor party) nearly all British members of parliament were trained at Oxford or Cambridge (Oxbridge). Britains politicians are among the best in the world, and yet, I'm lead to believe that this has caused the class structure in Britain.

    You should read about the British political system, it's very interesting, and rather close to what you seem to be proposing :D
     
  25. Joe1138

    Joe1138 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 22, 2003
    HUH!!!! YOu don't remember the 24 hour coverage all day of the OJ Trial? Of it being on EVERY CHANNEL? Of every talk show host in the state talking about nothing else BUT the OJ Trial??

    The coverage was not the responsibility of the state, it was the individual television stations and newspaper organizations that decided to air and report on the trial. The state's leaders at that time did not make it California law for each and every citizen to plunk down infront of the t.v. and watch every single second of that trial, that was a personal desicion made by everyone who watched that trial unfold on t.v. or in the newspapers. And for the record, CourtTV and CNN, which is based in Atlanta, GA, provided extensive coverage of that case as well. If you want to be ashamed of something over that case, be ashamed to be a human being because the fact is that case captivated the entire nation's attention.
     
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