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"Greed can be a powerful ally."

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by MaceWindu_PhD, Sep 29, 2005.

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  1. MaceWindu_PhD

    MaceWindu_PhD Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Aug 28, 2005
    I am not at a loss as to what this means in the literal sense.

    My question is that is there more to the line other than it's face value? Qui-Gon said this because he saw an opportunity to free Anakin by using Watto's known greed to get him to bet Anakin on the pod race. It seems odd to me that a Jedi such as Qui-Gon would use greed as an ally. It just sounds like a line Sidious would say. Any thoughts?
     
  2. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    I think he meant in terms of using someone else's greed to his advantage. Therefore, their greed becomes his ally.
     
  3. Master_Shaitan

    Master_Shaitan Jedi Master star 5

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    Dec 31, 2004
    He's referring to the greed in other people and thus the ability to manipulate that greed to work to his advantage

    For example, Watto is greedy so he can play on that and get him to do his bidding. He used Watto's greed to get him to bet with him over the podrace and with using Anakin as a wager.

    This isnt just a technique used by the Jedi though. Sidious does the same with Anakin - he offers Anakin power. As Anakin is greedy, he goes along with Sidious.

    Greed is a powerful ally for Sith and Jedi alike.
     
  4. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Oct 2, 2000
    It depends on the context. Qui-Gon took advantage of Watto's greed in order to maintain peace, order and justice in the galaxy, while Sidious took advantage of Anakin's greed in order to pursue his own sadistic goals.

    EDIT: Interesting! :)



    The difference lies in the beard
    /LM
     
  5. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    Looks like we're all on the same page.
     
  6. MaceWindu_PhD

    MaceWindu_PhD Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Aug 28, 2005
    I like your analysis, MS.=D=
     
  7. MaceWindu_PhD

    MaceWindu_PhD Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Aug 28, 2005
    Mods:

    Feel free to lock:)
     
  8. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    [Bail] "And so it is..." [/Bail]
     
  9. rhonderoo

    rhonderoo Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 7, 2002
    You guys are done?
     
  10. MaceWindu_PhD

    MaceWindu_PhD Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Aug 28, 2005
    Yeah, I'm not a fan of arguing just to argue. A consensus was reached.
     
  11. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    Short but sweet.

    Interesting topic thats for sure.
     
  12. rhonderoo

    rhonderoo Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 7, 2002
    Then why don't we give other users a chance to chime in?
     
  13. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    Works for me. Personally I liked the "spin" from Qui-gon's quote. Great way for GL to give us a sneak peak of things to come. Also shows how much of an influence Qui-gon would have had in the training of Skywalker. Things would surely been different.


    Skywalker ended up being like Gordon Ghecko, "Greed Works"
     
  14. Master_Shaitan

    Master_Shaitan Jedi Master star 5

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    Dec 31, 2004
    Thanks Mace Phd.

    It always good to reacquaint ourselves with Qui Gons teachings.

    I guess greed can be a powerful ally if you have it yourself (if you are a Sith). For example, greed is what puts a sith on their path to power. So you could say that greed is their ally in the fact that it gives them strength.

    Thats not what qui Gon meant of course but I thought i'd thought in another suggestion!

    EDIT: Good point SSS. Had Qui Gon trained Anakin perhaps he could have made him realise how easy it is to manipulate a greedy person. Perhaps through seeing that Anakin would have realised what Sidious was up to?

    But im sure Kenobi taught him that between dealing with his alcohol addiction and screwing Aayla Secura. :eek:

     
  15. DT421

    DT421 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Nov 6, 2003
    I think it could be said that Yoda and Obi used Vader and the Emperor?s greed over Luke to their advantage, as well. ;) They knew that the Sith would want Luke?s power for their own devilish purposes.

     
  16. jedi_jacks

    jedi_jacks Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 17, 2005
    oh ya, sidious' greed to hav anakin as his apprentice eventually got him killed, no one else but anakin really would hav had the chance, the way i see it.

    (sidious set up the mace windu duel [face_mischief] )

     
  17. jedi_jacks

    jedi_jacks Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 17, 2005
    Master_Shaitan
    But im sure Kenobi taught him that between dealing with his alcohol addiction and %$#!@&-ing Aayla Secura.


    kit fisto would take offense at that! (btw, did u read his eu *from the OS*? hes a dawg!)


    *EDIT*
     
  18. Master_Shaitan

    Master_Shaitan Jedi Master star 5

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    Dec 31, 2004
    No I havent JJ, but im on my way there now!

    EDIT:

    His close friendship and concern for fellow Jedi Aayla Secura occasionally pressed against the rules against attachment. They shared a deep respect for one another that, had they been outside the Jedi order, perhaps may have evolved into something else.


    :eek:

    That greedy, no good, dirty reptilian dawg! And as for Kit! Well!
     
  19. Darth_Argyle

    Darth_Argyle Jedi Youngling

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    Sep 13, 2005
    "Greed can be a powerful ally."

    I agree that Watto's greed was used to defeat him. As I read this thread, it reminded me of a basic martial arts technique where an opponent's own force or momentum is used against them. For instance, if someone lunges at you, you "help" them continue their path by pulling them forward and stepping out of their way. It's a judo technique, I think.
     
  20. YYZ-2112

    YYZ-2112 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Sep 3, 2004
    I think the underlying point here is that Qui Gon points out that greed is a weakness that can be exploited. This carries over into the entire series. Qui Gon exploits Watto's greed in trying to secure a positive outcome in TPM and later Palpatine exploits Anakin's personal greed to control Padme's fate. I think this is a seed Lucas deliberately planted early in the series to get the audience on the same page; that greed is a weakness that can be exploited.
     
  21. YYZ-2112

    YYZ-2112 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Sep 3, 2004
    Sounds like Aikido. But Judo and Jujitsu both stem from Aikido so you're not altogether offbase.
     
  22. Jedi_Kyeju

    Jedi_Kyeju Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 27, 2003
    That was actually the line I picked which defined the entire saga for me. At least the prequels anyway.
     
  23. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Actually, it fits the OT as well.

    -Obi-wan uses Han's greed to purchase a ship offworld. Though Han wasn't greedy so much as desparate.
    -Greed is what motivates Greedo (appropriate name) to try and kill Han.
    -Jabba's greed is what keeps him from ordering Boba Fett and the others to shot Han and Chewie.
    -Vader's greedy desire is to overthrow Palpatine using Luke. Palpatine wants a new Apprentice and his greed blinds him to the danger that Luke poses.
    -Luke tries to bargin with Jabba by giving him two droids, playing upon his greed. Most of his negotations are based on finding a way for Jabba to profit from releasing Han. In the end, Luke uses aggressive negotations.
    -Lando's greed forces him to give up Han to Vader and Fett.
    -Boba Fett is only concerned with money, which Vader promises that he will be compensated should Han die.
    -Luke uses greed to get Han to help him rescue Leia.
    -Han declared that he's only in this for the reward, which Leia says that if that's all he cares about, that's what he'll get. Then calls him a mercenary while talking to Luke.
     
  24. Master_Shaitan

    Master_Shaitan Jedi Master star 5

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    Dec 31, 2004
    I think most of what Qui Gon says is echoed throughout The Saga:

    "Be mindful of the living force"

    "Don't center on your anxiety, Obi-Wan. Keep your concentration here and now where it belongs".

    "Whenever you gamble, my friend, eventually you'll lose".

    "Our meeting was not a coincidence. Nothing happens by accident".

    "Always remember, your focus determines your reality".

    Good old Qui Gon..:_|



     
  25. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003

    :eek: Kenobi was tagging Secura?:eek:
     
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