Clone Wars Gregor (Season 5 spoilers)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Coric, Sep 3, 2012.

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  1. Coric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2011
    star 4
    Umbara really set up Fives to be a decent character.

    Wait.. how the hell did we get to this?


    Oh yeah...

    :p

    So.. Gregor.. what could those marks on his helmet be?
  2. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    Cut? srsly?

    **** that silly hippie with his rage-inducing ponytail. He should be publicly executed and put on display as an example of what happens to defective clones.
  3. Coric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2011
    star 4
    There are some clone haircuts that had me facepalming.. Cut's concept art freaked me out.. and there was one from Brain Invaders that just had me "o_o"
    Last edited by CoricBrennett, Sep 4, 2012
  4. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Hippie but, at least, he shows it. Rex is a hippie with ****-ed up bleached hair. :D

    I would have totally wished for Rex to be executed for crossing Krell!

    So far just from the few things I have seen from Gregor I like him more than Rex for sure. The guy has been out of the game but he is not all mopey and stuff.
  5. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    I like where you're going with this. The season 5 finale should have Cut, Rex and Fives publicly executed for drunk posting insubordination.
  6. Convor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 2
    Channeling Krell are we?
  7. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    I have not. Though to me it's more a matter of the novels getting something right is no excuse for TCW to veer into a wrong (IMO) direction. I'm not as picky as some when it comes to TCW contradicting canon. And I really actually think Filoni seems like a cool guy and when he gets into his talks on the ForceCasts for instance, sometimes he'll explain why certain decisions were made that may contradict with pre-existing EU and sometimes they seem entirely rational to me. And sometimes I feel like the dude can read my mind if I think the show should go into a particular direction and then he starts talking about how such ideas have been discussed.

    But then sometimes he just seems to veer off into random directions or using "logic" that I just can't agree with at all. For instance saying that non-clone Stormtroopers start to show up during the Imperial era because Palpatine can force conscription (I agree with this part), whereas during the Republic the Clone Army makes more sense (I disagree heavily with this part). IMO, the clone army carries with it a bunch of ethical issues inappropriate for a Republic. And I think it could even make sense to say that Palpatine is aware of those ethical issues and could use them + the fact that Sifo-Dyas is the one credited with ordering such an army to make a big Jedi scandal out of it.

    Meanwhile I think enlistment is more appropriate for a Republic. Look at many countries and there are no shortage of those voluntarily enlisting, making conscription unnecessary. People like Tarkin and Yularen are apparently just normal humans that wanted to serve in the military. By the end of ROTS there appear to be enlistees on the Star Destroyer at the end vs. TCW when all the stations are manned by clones. I think that actually both cloning and conscription fit more with the Empire because there would probably be fewer people jumping at the opportunity to serve an oppressive regime and also because nobody could question Palpatine's morals.

    I think the Clone Army could have been manipulated by Palpatine to sort of be an embarrassment to the Republic, but one that becomes associated with the Jedi and that they are blamed for by virtue that they are the generals leading the army on the battlefield and also because they (through Sifo-Dyas) ordered it to begin with. Politicians can then be turned against the Jedi and push for conscription rather than the costly price tag and monopoly with Kamino that is bankrupting the Republic (per TCW). Palpatine can play the role of the passive leader that loves democracy and is merely moving to the whims of the senate and sees the Jedi start to get replaced by proper military personnel that are loyal to him as the Commander-in-Chief, rather than the senate. And he can superficially start to introduce conscripts to replace that reputation tarnishing clone army, but then once declaring the Empire he gets to say "fooled you all" and keep both.

    Don't know if the EU contradicts all that or supports it in any way. But that's my fanon that makes the most sense to me anyway. And when Lucas is creating Star Wars to be a morality play for young people, I don't see how he decided that a Clone Army should be all peaches and cream for the good guys as it is in TCW.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Sep 4, 2012
  8. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    I like your idea, but I disagree with this part. Palpatine needs the Jedi to lead the clone army, it's all part of his plan for Order 66.
    Last edited by Humble_Jedi, Sep 4, 2012
  9. KenobiSkywalker Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Yes, the clone army was less likely to question the order compared to regular people.
  10. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    Back when AOTC or ROTS came out, I would have agreed. But now with TCW pretty much undermining everything Lama Su said to some extent, I would think that enlistees loyal to Palpatine and distrustful of the Jedi would be more likely to pull the trigger than clones that have had three years of bonding and have demonstrated the capacity to reject orders and consciously commit what they believe to be acts of treason.

    Now per ROTS, obviously clones do follow orders, but I don't see why a normal person would be any less likely to pull the trigger. The fact that all the clones start calling Palpatine "lord" and Palpatine's word choice when he says the "time has come" makes me suspicious that Lucas may have been implying a pre-arranged conspiracy between the clones and Sidious, or a manchurian candidate style trigger.

    I'm aware that the EU has apparently ruled that it was simply just a contingency plan and the clones obeyed orders. But if that's all it is, I don't see why Joe Blow that enlisted in the last year of the war, has been swayed by anti-Jedi sentiment, etc. would be disinclined to shoot a Jedi when given direct orders from his Commander-in-Chief. The Senate applauded the hunting down and killing of Jedi without question. If they're in a society where people are just that apathetic, if not downright hostile to them, I don't think too many Joes are going to reject orders.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Sep 4, 2012
  11. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    I'm not debating the fact that the clones have individualized and all that.

    My point is that if the Jedi aren't leading the clone army any more, and are replaced by military leaders who are loyal to Palpatine (which is what I understand from the way you worded it; "Jedi get replaced"), how is Order 66 ever going to work? The Jedi need to be surrounded by the armies, and stretched thin across the galaxy in order for the plan to work.
  12. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    That last post of mine was in response to @KenobiSkywalker's post about the clones being more willing to follow orders. As far as the Jedi getting surrounded by clones, I'm constrained by what happens in the films, and obviously they are still out on the battlefield leading clones in ROTS and clones like Cody and Bly still follow Order 66.

    I say "Jedi get replaced" because I assume that there is only a finite number of clones and for non-Jedi to rise to command positions, some Jedi are probably getting demoted to subordinate positions while those that remain generals become stubborn clinging to tradition when an increase of non-Jedi officers pretty much allows Palpatine to operate without them. Plus in ROTS we also see that he's trying to take direct control over the Jedi Council.

    I see it more as a matter of Palpatine does something with the consent or at least apathy of the Senate, but it is done in part with the explicit intention of irritating and provoking the Jedi, but then when the Jedi resist and push back it makes them look bad. For instance, Palpatine wants Anakin to go after Grievous. Mace flat out says that he won't allow Palpatine to decide that and the Council sends Obi-Wan instead. That's a big middle finger to the Commander-in-Chief, the likes of which I can't imagine happens all too often in the real world.

    The Jedi would still be there on the battlefield with the troops, but there would be infrastructure in place so that as soon as Order 66 happens, other generals can step in and take over immediately and the Jedi would have been politically alienated enough so that when they are wiped out the senate cheers. Rather than making the Jedi to be heroes one day and enemies of the state the next, with Palpatine essentially unilaterally decapitating the military leadership of the Republic and making it odd that the senate is just totally cool with it. I think that relationship needs to deteriorate over time so that it makes sense that the senate is applauding Palpatine, and why people like Bail did not want the Petition of 2000 to be associated with the Jedi and didn't particularly trust them.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Sep 4, 2012
  13. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    Wonder what squad Gregor was apart of, Omega or Delta?
  14. Coric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2011
    star 4
    ....:_|
    Last edited by CoricBrennett, Sep 4, 2012
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  15. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I get really tired of ignorance after a while...
  16. Coric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2011
    star 4
    I used the wrong smiley, wasn't laughing at you Vader.
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  17. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
  18. Coric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2011
    star 4
    I was just sad that those two squads seem to be the only RCs known to people.. ;_;

    Aiwha squaaaaaaad!
    Last edited by CoricBrennett, Sep 4, 2012
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  19. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Aiwha, Yayax, Ion, HOPE, Theta, Vevut...

    There are a bunch of commando squads, for those interested. And I have a feeling Gregor will be/will have been a part of a brand new one.
  20. DeviantSpirit Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    Personally I'd hate for Delta Squad to show up and not have the actors from the game voicing them. Dee Baker is great but he doesn't fit Boss, Scorch, Fixer or Sev.
  21. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    See, so if Gregor did lose his memory his real name still could be Skippy - and all would be right with the world.

    Lucas can just retcon this in the Special Edition of ROTS. The Jedi actually all got invited to a spa retreat for a weekend and got killed there by Darth Maul.
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Sep 5, 2012
  22. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    The damage is already done there. However, I think at this point it's fair to say that in Lucas' mind, every single clone has Jango's accent, which I find odd, since according to Filoni the overwhelming majority of clones have never met him. Unless they are all watching a series of holovids by Jango teaching "How to Fire a Gun 101," "Why I Love the Republic (and you should too)," and "The Joy of Obeying Orders," it seems like they should be speaking like Kaminoans or whomever else they interact with regularly that instructs them.
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  23. Humble_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 4
    QFT

    Especially Scorch.

    Enemies go boom, sir?
    Last edited by Humble_Jedi, Sep 5, 2012
  24. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    Than they wouldn't be clones than [face_laugh]
  25. Inblackestnight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2012
    star 1
    That's a good point; I haven't noticed that before. There's quite a few things about the clones that I've thought odd, many of which are mentioned in the RC series, but you're right, they shouldn't have Jango's accent.
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