Grudge Match 22 Jun 2005

Discussion in 'Jacksonville, NC' started by jkg_vader, Jun 22, 2005.

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Grudge Match 22 Jun 2005

Poll closed Jul 28, 2005.
ANH Darth Vader 3 vote(s) 60.0%
ANH Obi-Wan Kenobi 2 vote(s) 40.0%
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  1. jkg_vader Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    Ok, so 6 years ago I found a super funny website called "Grudge-Match" basically, it's kind of like MTV Celebrity Death Match, only actually funny, and you decide the outcome. They come up with the scenario, do some commentary, and then you vote. Sadly the site has since shut down, so I figured that we could have a little fun with it here. So, I'll present the scenario, along with the commentary, and then you vote, along with your reason's why. I'll post a new one each week...unless there is no interest in doing this. Oh, and they won't always be Star Wars, but the 1st one had to be!

    Here you go:

    The Setting

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    Pretty simple this week. What if Obi-Wan really tried?
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    Obi-Wan Kenobi
    vs.
    Darth Vader

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    The Commentary

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    BRIAN: Whoa! That's a tough one! I'll need some time to think about it...................... ........................ ......................... ................ ............... Gotta go with the Dark Side, Steve. True, Obi-Wan is a Jedi Master, but remember that Darth had the same training as Kenobi. There's a reason Darth switched sides: he knew which one was better. It really pains me to say this, you know how big a fan I am of Alex Guiness and all (I really loved him in Bridge on the River Kwai): evil wins out. Darth's got the knowledge, he's got the skills, he's got the rage, he's got that big cape and scary helmet and that spooky, heavy breathing, obscene phone call voice. (That reminds me, wasn't James Earl Jones great in Field of Dreams?) I know it's going to break the heart of America, but Vader would have won even if the old guy had tried.
    STEVE: If there is one thing that I have learned from watching TV and movies (that's a big "if"), then it is that good always wins. There may be limited exceptions to this rule in old episodes of The Twilight Zone, but the vast majority of "winners" in the entertainment media are the "good guys." Obi-Wan IS a good guy, therefore he will win. Plain and simple.

    This is an extremely powerful argument in itself, which is why the previous Grudge Matches have been so difficult to call. They have all been good vs. good or evil vs. evil. That extra perplexing factor vanishes in this match, leading to only one possible conclusion: Darth Vader impaled on a light sabre.

    BRIAN: If this argument is so powerful "in itself", then, how, might I ask, could Obi-Wan have lost in the first place. OH, I know you'll say, "Well, Brian, as we so clearly established previously, Obi-Wan wasn't trying the first time." But if your claim is that "good always wins" you are claiming that all other factors are irrelevant (except, as mentioned, a few episodes of the Twilight Zone. Remember that one with Burgess Meredith when he breaks his glasses...). If "good always wins" then Obi-Wan must have won the first time, which we know he didn't, so you're theory is just a bunch of ewok bung.

    And besides, the fact that good "always" triumphs over evil is a result of poor Hollywood writing where the annoying storylines (such as Die Hard 2 or Dennis the Menace) can only achieve closure if good wins out at the end. The story in Star Wars is good enough to allow for evil winning this minor battle, as long as good wins the war (blowing up the Death Star). The proof that this story doesn't need Obi-Wan to win is demonstrated by the fact that he didn't in the original picture and we still had sufficient closure. (If you don't believe me, rent Escape From New York sometime: bad guy gets the best of good guys, great closure.)

    STEVE: Enough of the superficial arguments. Let's talk facts. First, Who trained Vader? Yep, it was good 'ol Obi himself. Obi is the master, Vader is only a student. Second, Vader is a walking freak show and belongs in a circus. H
  2. jkg_vader Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    I gotta go with Vader on this one. 1) Obi-Wan is an old man now, and has been sitting around watching Luke for the last 20 years and talking to Dead Guys...no practice with a lightsaber, and 2) Darth Vader is a DARK LORD OF THE SITH, and he's got "The Rage." He hates Obi-Wan, and can totally spank him now that there's no lava around!
  3. eddie-wan-kenobi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 2003
    star 4
    You have good points, jkg. Not sure about this one. Vader is pissed off with the galaxy and is a big bad Sith, but his skills hardly look polished in ANH. Plus, Ben was still quick enough with a lightsaber to take the guys arm off on Tatooine. Hmmmm, tough call. I'll go with Ben on this one.
  4. jkg_vader Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    Eddie-Wan Kenobi...do I detect a slight name bias??? Look, just because he's your long lost cousin 4 times removed on your great uncle's side doesn't mean he's going to win. Family bias aside, and what do you have? A guy who can chop off arms... Big deal, he's already done that to Vader 3 times before, so it's not like that's going to scare him...he's got no limbs to loose! Sorry, but it's Vader all the way baby! Obi-Wan just gave up so he wouldn't get his butt whipped in front of Luke... [face_beatup]
  5. Lodreh Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2002
    star 4
    I think to be fair you have to look to the ultimate goals each character had for the fight...

    Darth Vader still felt he had something to prove after the spanking Obi-Wan gave him last time. His narrow minded vision of the Force set him up so that everything he had accomplished would be for naught if he could not best his old mentor. In his own way Vader still was in that all or nothing mind set.

    Obi-Wan's understanding of the Living Force had reached a higher level. I think Obi-Wan knows the only way Luke can commit to the ideals of the Jedi is to confront the Emperor. However, if Obi-Wan were to kill Vader then the Emperor would be able turn Luke to the Dark Side. What's worse is the Emperor could do it with the truth, Luke's own mentor killed his father in front of him. That would destroy Luke's faith in Obi-Wan... sending the young Skywalker down the dark path once and for all. Truth is more dangerous than a lie... The only way Obi-Wan could both continue to mentor Luke and protect him from that faith was to throw the fight.

    In that sense the Obi-Wan verses Vader battle couldn't have ended any other way... they both had the same goal... Obi-Wan must die in order to succeed.

    Lod-Reh SaJon ~
    "If you seek knowledge and understanding look to the Force.
    If you seek pain and suffering look no further than me."
  6. eddie-wan-kenobi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 2003
    star 4
    DAMN good post, Lodreh!! jkg, what can I say. I'm a family-kind a guy. [face_laugh]
  7. jkg_vader Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    Darn you and your logic! You agree with me, but make Vader look like a panzy!!!
  8. JediRiff Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2002
    star 5
    Gotta go with the man in black! ;)
  9. JediMasterLomor Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    i gotta go with vader. so what if obi wan whacked his legs off. he still came back even stronger, and eventually got the upper hand. vader kicks @$$!
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