Guide to the Grand Army (Insider #84)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by KarenTraviss, Sep 17, 2005.

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  1. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    [Miss Piggy]What an unbeLIEVable coincidence...[/Miss Piggy]

    Yep, and we all know how I choose to interpret that. ;) But sadly, wink wink nudge nudge is the best I can hope for at the moment...
  2. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 9, 2000
    star 6
    Say no more. Say no more. :p

    - The Imperial Ewok
  3. Corran_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2005
    star 4
    Thrawn McEwok posted:
    Say no more. Say no more. :p

    - The Imperial Ewok
    />

    8-} Now, without the "- The Imperial Ewok", the effect would've been better. [face_beatup]/>/>
  • StarKiller_Outrider Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2006
    star 2
    What the heck are you talking about. How is what I posted unintelligible. Is English and numbers to much for you.

    Really I want to know ?Mr I?m so tired? but wont add anything.

    So let me ask you this. Do you agree with the recon of the Republic Order of Battle to only 320 clones total and the 501st Vaders Fist being one clone or something more realistic.
  • StarKiller_Outrider Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2006
    star 2
    Nice no numbers nick pick. Well since you only pointed out Haruun Kal I assume you agree with the rest of the numbers then.

    Now to Haruun Kal lets go threw some of the facts and numbers.
    Halleck a wedge-shaped, medium-sized curser. Most likely a modified Acclamator I or II. So Halleck had a crew of 700 clones at least.
    20 Jadthu-class landing ships
    Crew 2 pilots 3 gunners and 1 engineer.
    Carry 60 clones.
    heavy-infantry Clone Trooper Regiment 2,304 clones (maybe more).
    Total Jadthu crew 120 clones.
    Total Jadthu clone troop carrying ability 1,200 clones. Leaving 1,104 clones to ride 36.8 LAAT or rounding up 37 LAAT (probably 40-80 LAAT).
    37 LAAT crew 4 each or 148 total crew.

    So Halleck enter the system and was attacked by droid fighters. The Halleck deployed LAAT and Clone troopers with Repulsorpacks to fend them off. The 20 Jadthu are sent down to the planet and most are picked off. Most of the LAAT and Repulsorpack Clones are killed in space. Of the Jadthu and LAAT that make land fall all ground troopers are killed. Mace uses his surviving LAAT to destroy the droid fighters on planet and capturer a droid command station. Halleck was attacked by CIS warships lying in wait in the Gevarno Cluster. Halleck itself was damaged in the ambush, but escaped into hyperspace.

    So going by what happened. The Halleck was damaged enough that it had to run so about 100 clone crew killed. All most all the clones from the regement killed 2,100 making it down to the ground. At least 15 Jadthu were destroyed 90 crew clones killed. About 32 LAAT destroyed 128 clone crew killed.
    100+2,100+90+128=2,418 so yeah about 2,400 clones killed. I rounded down.

    Oh, by the way I got to add Amaltanna which had at least 16,000 dead clones (maybe more) in the 6th month. With about 6 dead ARC troopers also.
  • StarKiller_Outrider Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2006
    star 2
    Remember you?re the one saying Legions are made up of 1 guy. I don?t think calling one clone an army would work.


  • LtNOWIS Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    star 4
    No, that's not what I meant. I don't accept most of them; I'm generally skeptical of fan analysis such as this.

    The Republic's landing ships only suffered 40% losses, not most. They lost 8 Jadthu landers, but only four of those were in space. While most of the troopers floating around in the upper atmosphere died, getting shot down over land might be more survivable.

    Also, not all of the troopers who landed died.

    But yeah, Haruun Kal is better explored than most of the battles; it's hard to get numbers like this without introducing speculation, especially for all these battles that we don't actually see.
  • dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    It's worked for the US Army in marketing for several years now... :p
  • browwiw Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2007
    star 3
    That and forced re-enlistment.
  • StarKiller_Outrider Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2006
    star 2
    How skeptical of you and hand waving. Some of those numbers are very straight forward and conservative (rounding down). So will you agree that if I cut it in half 1.6 million within 7 months of the Galactic war. Remember this is only 7 months with 2 years and 3 months to go of known battle. There are hundreds that we don?t know anything about.
    So in your opinion we can?t count clone deaths at all.
    So out of the 2,304 Regiment only 720 made it down to the ground with 1,584 positively killed. 8 Jadthu destroyed with a crew total of 48 dead. Since you did not mention LAAT losses 37 LAATs destroyed total crew of 148 dead clones. So the confirmed total is 1,780 dead clones so far. Sure some might have survived a crash landing but also some might have been killed when there ships were shot up to. So it should be safe to cancel them out.
    Just most out of a total possible 720 clones. The only thing on surviving clones was some Republic forces were left. So less then half. About 20% 144 clones in operational shape. I?m getting 2,356 dead clone troopers and drop ship crews. Plus about 100 dead from the damaged Halleck that was force to flee.
    Haruun Kal is not that straight forward and other battles are easier to get numbers from. Do you see anything wrong with my educated guesses. If so let me know.

    How about I compromise and do Lower and Higher limit 1,621-2,500 dead clones.

  • StarKiller_Outrider Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2006
    star 2
    No that?s a service motto. Not what they called an Army. By the way they changed it to ?Army strong? since the old one was stupid.

    So are you saying that you agree with the Recon of Tarviss Grand Army of the Republic Order of Battle to 320 clones total and that the 501st is only one clones.

  • StarKiller_Outrider Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2006
    star 2
    You can?t force re-enlist in a volunteer army.
  • Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    The Empire is funny that way.
  • dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Maybe?

    Out of curiosity, what was the standard squad size in the Empire?
  • browwiw Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2007
    star 3
    Tell that to all those soldiers and marines on their 4th and 5th tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. Oh, I'm sorry..."extended contracts".

    But I really don't want this thread to break down into that kind of discussion (I.e politically polarized flame war).
  • AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    8 + Sergeant, so 9 total.
  • StarKiller_Outrider Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2006
    star 2
    We weren?t talking about the Empire but the US Army. Pay attention.

    Since I got your attention, please answer some questions you wont respond to.

    1) Tarviss Grand Army of the Republic Order of Battle to 320 clones total for 3 years.
    2) The 501st is now only one clone trooper.

    Do you agree with this Recon. Yes or No.
  • StarKiller_Outrider Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2006
    star 2
    What. Please answer these two points of this Recon.
    1) Tarviss Grand Army of the Republic Order of Battle to 320 clones total for 3 years. No more clones.

    2) The 501st is now only one clone trooper.

    Don?t have the book. Why are you trying to change the topic. But under the Reconed Tarviss Grand Army of the Republic Order of Battle, a squad would be Zero clone troopers.
  • StarKiller_Outrider Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2006
    star 2
    No, ?extended contract? is just that, extending a tour a couple of months. They first have to re-enlist to go on another tour. Which we are having record numbers do. So yes you can?t force re-enlist in a volunteer army.

    By the way you may be getting the US volunteer army confused with a European conscript army.
    Yes, this is off topic. I don?t know why you brought it up.
  • browwiw Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2007
    star 3
    Couple of months? 40,000 troops in Iraq have had their enlistment extended until Dec 24, 2031 (that is not a typo. I wish it was). It's a strong arm tactic. You can re-enlist for another tour or get extended to 2031. Either way you're staying in Iraq.


  • dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    1) I have to explain nothing, since I don't care.
    2) How do you know I was trying to change the subject? I actually had a valid question which you decided that you wouldn't answer. So much the pity.
  • AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    DP: From the ISB, 2nd Edition

  • Quiet_Mandalorian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2005
    star 5
    Roughly two years longer than a term of service in the British Army. Interesting.
  • Commander5052 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    I thought it was 3, plus a sergeant, but that may be the Imperial Remnant squad size.
  • Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 9, 2000
    star 6
    The Imperial Sourcebook says three things:

    1.) Army squads under the Old Republic often contained ten or twelve soldiers.
    2.) an Imperial Army squad consisted of eight troopers and a sergeant.
    3.) Stormtrooper Corps squads could be smaller than Army ones; scout troopers are organized in "lances" of four troopers plus a sergeant.

    The standard Imperial Army squad was almost certainly used in GttGAR as the basis for the GAR squad, and a remark in one of the X-wing novels says that nine-man squads were still standard in stormtrooper units - which certainly fits with known stormtrooper platoon and company sizes.

    In Fool's Bargain and Survivor's Quest, however, we see a squad-sized "unit" of four stormtroopers in the 501st under the Empire of the Hand, with ten of these units in a company. In Legacy #4, we see a squad of three troopers, a sergeant and a lieutenant.

    And squads of three troopers and a sergeant were, of course, the basic unit of the SO BDE in the GAR, so this isn't unprecedented.

    You could also make a connection between the Republic Commando troop, which has five squads, and some indications of a 45-man stormtrooper platoon size, which could be interpreted as five nine-man squads rather than the Army standard of four.... but this situation gets very complicated very quickly when you have four-man and nine-man squads and an inbuilt capacity to permanently add extra squads to "augment" line units, and you also have to ask what NCOs and officers are assigned to any given unit.

    For instance, a spacetrooper platoon consists of forty spacetroopers, a platoon commander, and a four-man shuttle flight crew....

    [face_thinking]

    - The Imperial Ewok
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