Senate Gun Control Laws Poll

This sort of belongs in the gun control thread but I wanted to do a poll specific to this.

Would you support legislation that:
A) Banned all gun sales for 25 years
B) Closed down all gun stores and firing ranges
C) Banned concealed weapons and instituted 6 months of jail time for firing a weapon except in self defence.
D) Instituted a gun buyback program for the government to buy back firearms for more than their retail value.

 

No, I could not support all four of those. If you're going to allow people to keep the guns they have, don't shut down gun ranges. That's asking for even more trouble.

And the government could not afford to buy back guns. There are simply too many.

Sorry, your legislation is far too wide for a yes.

 

I think that with the lives saved(and tax dollars gained) from having less guns on the streets, the government could afford it. Firing ranges encourage people to use weapons in unnecessary situations, in my opinion. No reason to have them if buying guns and carrying guns and firing guns is not allowed.

 

Who's going to maintain and provide firearms to police then? Or provide practice areas for them? Most small police departments don't have a trained armorer let alone professional gunsmith, or have a firing range of their own - they use comercial services.

That said it will be interesting to see the results. The feeling I get from these boards is that membership is very much on the liberal side of things and usually well-off to boot, so it's not exactly representative of the population. We also have a large international presence. I know which way I expect the poll to skew but right now at least it's tied.

 

Tries to do too much and too broad. I voted no.

Here's a possible alternative(which also has some unrealistic proposals at this time).

1. Require a national waiting period
2. Require extensive background checks
3. Require a basic firearm training course and licensure for firearm purchases.
4. Strictly limit sales of some semi-automatic components and ammunition
5. Have a national database accessible to all law enforcement tying a firearms serial # to its owner similar to a title on a car. When gun is sold, title must be transferred into new owners name and entered into database. This must be compulsory.

In exchange, the NRA and other gun lobbies get a loosening of restrictions on other guns.

That's the tradeoff to try and gain broader support.

 

A & B are way too extreme, so is C but even if C passed that leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

I support D. Plus universal background checks.

 

Hmm, can't see many of these working.

I really don't see the need for citizens carrying weaponry, concealed or not, but there is the difference between carrying a knife / gun and a can of pepper spray - both count as a weapons but you're unlikely to kill someone with pepper spray.

Firing ranges I can see as filling a useful purpose of being able to practice safely - what I'd like to see encouraged is that shooting targets at a range is in no way preparation for shooting a person. The military do a ton of training to over-ride most people's hesitancy to kill, that they have to do that is a good thing. If you're to have ranges for the purpose of practice though, it should be that every range is a centre of best practice of both how to shoot and how to be a responsible owner.

Buyback guns - or gun amnesty yes, but not at a rate beyond that of commercial as you'll have people buying guns just to resell to the government at a profit.

Quite like Shane's list, but think the training should be more than basic safety.

 

Jedi Ben, when I was 12 I took what was called a hunters safety course to get my license to hunt with a gun. It was a rite of passage for many young boys growing up in the U.S. for decades. But it was very basic. Down to how to handle the rifle, load it and fire it.

But I agree this basic safety program would be more extensive than that. There needs to be a small course you have to take and pass.

 

I think you need an ethics / moral component to firearms training.

There ought to be some sort of reverence of the fact you wish to wield a deadly weapon. I believe samurai were taught their sword embodied their soul, thus they should take due care of it and wield it carefully. Something along those lines perhaps.

There's a great little conversation in Mass Effect 2 where a sergeant is instructing two new gunners and he emphasises the importance of knowing that once they fire a gun in space, the projectile keeps going until it hits something! "You fire this gun, you will ruin someone's day!" Something that emphasises that if you shoot a gun - you are responsible for wherever and in whoever the bullet(s) end up.

Hell, a great deal of this really is common sense but common sense isn't common.

 

That's a good insight. I agree completely that hunting and multi-generational family ethics around owning firearms, and what their purpose is, has almost entirely shifted, much to our detriment.

 

A) No. I'd consider banning all gun sales except contracts between the military and other government branches requiring firearms. Or, I'd limit the guns available to civilians to bolt-action rifles with internal magazines (external magazines would be banned) limited to five rounds only, double barreled shotguns, and revolvers. I'd consider restrictions on revolvers too, like single action only, and ways to slow down the reloading process.

Then I'd make it very difficult to even acquire a gun, with several tests and a tight background check, among other things, and then those processes would have to be repeated periodically to maintain ownership of a gun.

B) If we go with the ban on gun sales, obviously close all gun stores, and limit the firing ranges to government facilities.

C) Ban concealed carry. I'd have to take time to consider any penalties.

D) No way, I'd never pay more than retail value.

Sometimes when I'm feeling authoritarian I'd like to institute a "take back" program where the government simply takes guns away without compensation. Guns are illegal now, which means you made a bad investment. No refunds.

That way, when people say "they're coming to take our guns away", I can go "yeah, I am".

Because I'd absolutely like to take your guns away.

 

I agree with Ghost. A and B go way too far.... I like C in principle but "self-defence" is too vague, and I like D.

 

(my emphasis)

And there's the problem right there.

The other thing that really irritates me is when people come out with dumb statements like: Firing a gun is just like a video game! Er, right.... So, this video game it has recoil yes? The gun you're firing has physical weight? There's no easy crosshair that turns red but just a pair of iron sights yes? And every shot you fire the gun recoils into you, yes? No? Then it's not like a video game is it, you dumbarse.

I've only shot a couple of times with air rifles and could tell then, I was probably early teens at the time, that there was a massive difference in how guns work in reality.

 

Shooting at targets is a great recreational sport, plus it's an Olympic and Commonwealth Games sport so I'd hate to see gun reforms to be so sweeping that it eliminated shooting from the sphere of recreation and sport where it belongs. Gun reforms need to focus on semi-automatic weapons and the ease in which they can be purchased for 'home defence'. They need to be gone. If the only gun owners and guns were recreational target shooters and target shooting rifles respectively I'd be happy and there would most likely be a few thousand less deaths each year in the US.

 

I'm not sure how much respect I have left for recreational shooters. I understand sport shooting, the desire to hone a skill; it's not unlike the practice of archery.

But that's not the sense I get from many recreational shooters today. They don't shoot to hone their skill, it's not as virtuous as that; they shoot to achieve some sort of power fantasy, which is problematic. You can see it with people who want the biggest, baddest firearm they can get their hands on. They don't want a bolt-action rifle, even though they can use it to practice their skills just as well (it might be better suited for that purpose), because it just doesn't get them excited.

I don't have any respect for people who like playing with guns because they make them feel powerful.

Despite it mostly being unnecessary today, I still have a good deal of sympathy for people who seriously want a firearm to use to hunt for food. I sympathize with anyone who is hungry and just wants to eat. I wouldn't want to take anyone's ability to feed themselves in this manner. Still, there are other methods, like bows, traps, etc.

 

I have zero respect for 'recreational' shooters who shoot at targets which look like people (in particular those "ex-girlfriend" targets that are dressed up to like like women), those people are just sick ****s.

 

I am very confused to see so many "no" votes. I can very much understand the "partial" vote, but just a no?

 

I think that some of those measures are simply too extreme for the culture that they would, in theory, be implemented on. Gun culture in the United States isn't a fiction. It can't be addressed like someone quitting smoking cold turkey. I think that an increased waiting period accompanied by more thorough background checks, comprehensive exams regarding safety and mentality, regular tests (maybe every 3 years?) re-assessing an individual's gun safety comprehension and overall mental well-being would probably be a sound approach.

Admittedly, I'm not quite certain as to what the best approach would be to test mental well-being. Many employers use personality assessments upon hiring, but I think we all know how to answer those accordingly if not entirely honestly.

Edit:

And obviously the gun show loop hole. Just get rid of that entirely. And private sales should perhaps be treated like private auto sales with regards of transferring of documentation.

 

How about this: prohibit sales of metal bullets and make them all have serial numbers.

 

I like the idea of a gun-buyback program, but I think people are too tied to their guns to give them up. I think they need to have better background checks and regulations, though that's very vague.