Senate Gun Control

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    I just love imaging the scenario:

    LEE: "Halt! What are you doing?"
    ROBBER: "Erm, wow. See, I'm stealing from you."
    LEE: "You..! Is your intent to harm me and my family?"
    ROBBER: "Er, no. No. Just to nick your TV. Some jewelry. Stuff I can sell."
    LEE: "Right. OK. Well, um, firstly... thank you. For the not harming us bit. But, erm... look, sorry to be a bother, but I'm going to have to call the police."
    ROBBER: "No, I understand. No need to apologise. 'owever, if I'm being 'onest... Prefer if you didn't"
    LEE: "Well, see, Kinda have to."
    ROBBER: "Yeah... I could just leave then?"
    LEE: "No, no, that wouldn't work."
    ROBBER: "Well I'm 'ardly gonna wait for the coppers to show up, am I?"
    LEE: "RIght. Make sense. Hmmmm... Wait! What if I waived this gun around menacingly?"
    ROBBER: "Are you going to use it?"
    LEE: "Well, no. Not unless you harm us..."
    ROBBER: "Which I said I won't"
    LEE: "Yeah, see.. Can I ask a favour?"
    ROBBER: "I don't see why not."
    LEE: "Could you just say you were going to harm us?"
    ROBBER: "I won't!"
    LEE: "Oh go on!"
    ROBBER:"No!"
    LEE: "Please?"
    ROBBER: "You'll shoot me!"
    LEE: "I won't! I promise!"
    ROBBER: "Yes you will! You said if I 'armed your family, you'd shoot me! So, if I say I'm going to, well, that's it innit? You'd shoot me!"
    LEE: "Yeah, I would. I would."
    V-2, tom, Arawn_Fenn and 3 others like this.
  2. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    In American "English", it means "are you taking the piss" or "are you joking".
  3. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    Because the rest of us are laughing at your internet tough guy routine mixed with you gross lack of understanding of the sequence of events that would occur should someone break into your home.
  4. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    Actually. it doesn't go against basic gun safety. The rule is that you do not load a gun until you plan to use it, but a gun used for defense (either in the home or carried in a holster) is considered "using it". In fact, especially when you are talking about a carry gun, it is far safer to leave it "cocked and locked" than it is to load and unload it every time you put it on or take it off.

    Why? Because most negligent discharges happen when the gun is being either loaded or unloaded. The less you handle the firearm, the less likely you are to set it off when you don't intend to.

    By not repeatedly loading and unloading your firearm, you also avoid bullet setback issues, which can be extremely dangerous. Bullet setback is a problem where every time you load a round into a semi-automatic firearm, it puts a little bit of pressure on the top of the bullet, pushing it slightly down into the cartridge. Over time, this can compress the round until it is shorter than it is supposed to be, which increases the pressure when it is actually fired. That higher pressure can cause damage to your gun, and in extreme circumstances, can cause serious injury to the hand firing the gun.

    That's why a "cocked and locked" firearm (which only applies to a single action firearm with an external safety, like the 1911) that is carried regularly is safer to store overnight than an unloaded firearm. Personally, my carry gun (a 1911 Officer's model) stays "cocked and locked" and in its holster, except for when I am going to the range, cleaning the gun (about once a month or after every other range trip, whichever comes first), or when I am switching holsters (my primary holster is a Crossbreed Supertuck, but I sometimes use a Galco Small of the Back holster depending on what I am wearing).

    The firearm that we keep for home defense, on the other hand (a 1911 Government model), is kept in a safe place that our kids can't get to with a full magazine in the gun, but no round in the chamber (requiring you to rack the slide, which takes a lot more hand strength than either of our kids have). Every other firearm we have is locked up in our safe or locked in its case, all unloaded.
  5. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    And Americans care exactly **** all about international good will. “American Exceptionalism” and all that [face_flag] [face_flag] [face_flag]
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  6. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    And if you won't take offence at a 'Limey' saying so; that's a rather short-sighted attitude that may come back to bite them in the rear in due course.
  7. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    NIAWYC that "American Exceptionalism" in it's current form is ridiculously short-sighted. But that's not the thread topic, now is it? ;)
    Last edited by Jedi Merkurian, Dec 27, 2012
  8. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Wait a minute. I can see loaded, but cocked as well? Why would anyone need their gun to be pre-cocked?
  9. FatBurt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 5
    It's pre-cocked so that in the unlikely event that his house is actually "invaded" by a robber type he is in a position to firmly grasp his man extension and inadvertantly shoot himself in the foot whilst slowly filling his trousers over the possibility that he may have to threaten someone with a gun that he has never used in anger whereas said "invader" type probably has a little more experience with said firearms and is less likely to hesitate when threatened.
    Ender_Sai, tom and Rogue1-and-a-half like this.
  10. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    That's our lee
    Last edited by Lord Vivec, Dec 27, 2012
  11. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    I have a booby-trapped front door that automatically fires from a loaded gun when you open it unless I remember to specifically turn if off. But don't worry since it is of course all set up in a responsible and thoughtful manner. I am completely good with safety, no matter what you might believe.
  12. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    My car is set up to fire a rocket at a car that is within 6 inches of my car. Don't want any accidents. But it is totally safe.
  13. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    It depends on the specific model of gun that you have.

    Handguns tend to fall into three categories, based on what the trigger does:

    Single Action - The hammer is drawn back by one mechanism (or your thumb, in the case of old revolvers) and the trigger only releases it
    Double Action Only - Pulling the trigger both cocks the hammer and releases it
    Single Action/Double Action - The gun can be used in either manner

    For a Single Action gun with an external safety (like a 1911), "cocked and locked" means that you have a loaded magazine in the gun, you have racked the slide to chamber a round (which automatically cocks the hammer), and then you have activated the external thumb safety (which makes it impossible to either pull the trigger or move the slide). It is perfectly safe, to the point where you could drop the gun off of a building in that state and it would not go off. In fact, it is more dangerous to try and decock the gun, as it requires manually holding back the hammer while you pull the trigger. If your finger slips at all, you could easily have a negligent discharge on your hands.

    With many DAO or SA/DA guns, you will have a "decocking lever" which allows you to safely lower the hammer after chambering a round, but even that is not always advisable, depending on what you are doing with it. Double Action guns require a longer and heavier trigger pull, which can reduce their accuracy. Some firearms that are DAO rely on that longer, heavier trigger pull to act as an additional safety against negligent discharges.

    Real life is not like Hollywood. You don't draw your gun from your holster and then rack the slide. It might look cool, but it wastes valuable time when your life could be on the line. Pretty much all modern firearms are designed to be carried safely with a round in the chamber, ready to use.
    Last edited by Kimball_Kinnison, Dec 27, 2012
  14. SuperWatto Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2000
    star 5
    Just loading it is half-assed, a cocked gun is more titilating. And you don't need Jw's booby-trap.
  15. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    AND the trap is set at a height higher than that which my children had achieved at their last physical
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Dec 27, 2012
  16. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Who needs this warning more?

    A. Last Action Hero Guy, who will bolt upright from deep sleep and, using a combination of marksmanship, tactical brilliance, good lucks and martial arts destroy an elite commando squad launching a full scale military assault on his suburban home for no reason.

    B. Everyone else

    You clearly made the right choice.
  17. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 7
    The use of the word "whilst" is what really pushes this post over the line into straight up genius.
  18. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    kimball just admit that sometimes, when nobody else is around, you pull the gun out and aim it around the room and make "pew pew" noises. with your finger outside the trigger guard, of course.

    i think everyone will have a little more empathy for you after you've made this rather obvious admission
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Dec 27, 2012
  19. FatBurt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 5
  20. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    I'm sorry, this quaint antipodean finds the whole notion of "if someone breaks into my home, then as Jesus commanded, he must die!" both hilarious and mildly terrifying. Firstly; it's painfully obvious the only "fight or flight" scenario you have encountered is a threatening looking man (I didn't need to say he was black for you to imagine it so, did I? [face_thinking]) so you are basically living in a poorly constructed web of machismo BS. At a point at which you're truly threatened you are unlikely to overcome the adrenaline rush and you will, in fact, do something stupid.

    No, don't argue, you won't fix it. You won't master it. You won't be in control. People train for scenarios precisely because their self-assurances about how well they'd cope are worth two fifths of ****-all. It's been long enough now I could probably discuss this; I remember doing a course that instructed you on what to do if kidnapped (Manila being a popular kidnap destination and Government employees having access to highly classified material). A guy there was talking about how easy it would be, and when it starts - you don't know it's going to start, it just does - he was utterly terrified to the point of breaking down in tears. Which isn't a judgment on him - a gang of armed men grab you, wrestle a canvas bag over your head and hog-tie you with cable ties - you're pretty helpless.

    The reason I mention this is twofold. Firstly; because it shows that people usually have to go through training for some measure of preparedness (note: Training =/= X thousand rounds downrange) and two, people who think they can handle a stressful situation based nothing off their own confidence (and as Jabba noted, their deadly good looks and martial arts skills) usually end up finding out how wrong they are the hard way.

    The reason I find it terrifying is that it harkens back to a point I made earlier about the right to bear arms having more importance than the right to life. That's truly worrying and since this sentiment does not reflect the statistics on home invasion it shows a deeply troubling psychology at work. The odds of someone breaking into your home when you're there, ready, armed and waiting, are low. Statistically speaking. Yet people concoct elaborate fantasies about how they would end a life if that happened.

    Now I don't know about you guys, but if someone has fantasised about how they would kill an armed intruder, it seems that there's some compensating for underlying insecurities going on there... [face_shhh]

    Now if you'll excuse me; we can't have guns in Australia in bedside tables loaded and lube... er, ready. I've instead got knives. Because you know, if you ban guns, then what's next. Knives? Knives. Yeah. [face_flag]
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  21. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    im an expert with throwing knives, true story
  22. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    I wonder if Harry Potter and those guys over there have to worry about wand control.
  23. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    wands actually are "tools" with uses beyond killing
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Dec 27, 2012
  24. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    ...and they do actually ban the use of lethal spells. [face_beatup]
  25. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I'm an expert with holding knives.

    I can hold a knife in a vaguely threatening fashion with the best of them.

    The stabbing, not so much.