Senate Gun Control

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Have you seen Spartan, Rogue?
  2. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    yeah but it was a long time ago and it seemed stupid so i dont remember much of it.

    i lied about the knives btw
  3. Aytee-Aytee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2008
    star 5
    Speaking clearly across all language: you sir are a condescending, self righteous asshat. Buh bye.
    Last edited by Aytee-Aytee, Dec 27, 2012
    Arawn_Fenn likes this.
  4. Aytee-Aytee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2008
    star 5
    Nothing in your pockets but knives and Lindt. :p
  5. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
  6. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 7
    Ender's point is a good one. I think we'd all love to think that, if the moment ever actually called for it, that we would step up and be a badass and save the day. Most of us would just be on the floor in the fetal position, in reality. I would, anyway.
    V-2 and Jedi Merkurian like this.
  7. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Absolutely, but you motive for saying that is feeling a little unhappy about being called on your machismo fantasy.:)
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  8. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9


    Go to 1:44.
  9. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    No one actually knows that until the actual moment arrives.

    History is full of accounts of "brave" men who chickened out in a time of trial, and of "timid" men who stepped up and did things that not even they thought they could do.

    I fully admit that I don't know how I would act if the moment ever arrives. I hope and pray that I would be able to "step up" and protect myself, or my family. What I do know is that it is better to have a gun and not need it than to need it and not have it.

    I can say that in previous potentially life threatening situations (such as when I had two bounty hunters trying to break my door down in the middle of the night), I did manage to keep my cool and deal with the situation appropriately, without having to shoot anyone. But that doesn't mean that the next time (hopefully never) that such a situation comes up I would be able to resolve the situation without violence.
  10. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    i can taste the fantasizing

    wow that's even more terribly written than i remember
  11. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    It's a good thing these are the only two options, and there are no possibilities like an explosion of lethal force that turns out later to have been completely unnecessary and driven by the charge of one's own biases and emotional state.

    Oh, wait.
    V-2 likes this.
  12. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    That's called projection. You believe that you would fantasize about it (or you actually do fantasize about it), and so you automatically assume that anyone else would.
  13. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    or you're like openly doing it in public for everyone to see
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Dec 28, 2012
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  14. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    Just because I have a gun on me doesn't mean that I have to shoot someone. It simply becomes one more option to choose from.

    For example, in both the Tucson/Gabby Giffords shooting and the recent Clackamas Town Center shooting (a few days before Sandy Hook), a legally-armed citizen helped stop the shooter. In the Clackamas Town Center shooting, the armed citizen drew his sidearm and confronted the shooter, but didn't shoot because there were people behind the shooter who could have been hit. (After being confronted, the shooter chose to commit suicide.)

    The simple fact is that if I have a gun, I always have the option not to use it. If I don't have a gun, I have no such option.
  15. tom Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 6
    was one of the bounty hunters a robot or an android? because really your gun's not going to help if that's the case.
    V-2 likes this.
  16. tom Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 6
    then i guess it's lucky that he chose to shoot himself instead of just shooting the guy who confronted him.
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  17. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    I was more objecting to the fact that your formulation maximally stressed the possible benefits of having a gun and completely ignored the numerous associated risks.
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  18. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 7
    In the Tucson shooting, the armed citizen almost shot the wrong guy because someone had just taken the gun away from the shooter.
  19. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    I've personally evaluated the risks and benefits and made my own decision. I prefer to have it with me and have the option.

    Note that I don't insist that you or anyone else be required to carry. (In fact, I oppose even the thought of mandatory carry.) In fact, if you aren't comfortable with the idea of carrying, I think it's a wise idea for you not to.

    It's not for everyone, but that doesn't mean that it should be denied to everyone.
    Aytee-Aytee likes this.
  20. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    That is false. He never even drew his sidearm. Based on the interviews he gave, he helped to tackle/disarm the shooter.
  21. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    I didn't comment on what you have or haven't done privately. I commented about what you wrote. Which did not acknowledge any risks at all, and was a stupid formulation in that respect.

    Yes, great point KK. I'm sure he was lying when he explained how he was ready to use the gun against someone who wasn't the shooter. Probably the liberal media drugged and hypnotized him before he gave this interview, huh?
    Last edited by Jabba-wocky, Dec 28, 2012
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  22. tom Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 6
    if this is true how is his being armed even relevant?
  23. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 7
    He was holding the gun in his hand with the safety off. He said he was "very lucky" not to have shot the wrong man.
    V-2 likes this.
  24. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    Hey!

    Whatever else is being discussed, don't bang on Spartan too soundly. It has its faults, but it was certainly a trailblazer for the genre to follow, which was a move away from "Hollywood" military movies into a more accurate depiction. David Mamet, the writer and director, extensively used military consultants to make sure the details were accurate. In fact, MSG Eric Haney was Val Kilmer's primary mentor for the movie. (Haney was one of the 1st members of the Army's counter-terrorist detachment created by Colonel Beckwith using tactics developed from the SAS) Spartan could even be considered a prototype for David Mamet's more famous creation, the series-The Unit, which MSG Haney was a producer and again, mentor for.

    If that clip above had a little cheese in it, that's because Kilmer was speaking words written by actual military members, who of course, were doing a bit of hamming it up through him.
  25. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    And guys, you're both correct regarding Joe Zamudio. Zamudio had his pistol in a pocket holder inside of his jacket:

    Reporting from Tucson and Washington — Joe Zamudio was out buying cigarettes last Saturday when he heard what sounded like fireworks but quickly realized were gunshots. He reached into his coat pocket for the 9-millimeter semiautomatic pistol he carried, clicking the safety off. Zamudio, 24, had his finger on the trigger (inside of his jacket pocket) and seconds to decide. He lifted his finger from the trigger and ran toward the struggling men. The fact that Zamudio was carrying a gun, and his split-second decision to keep it in his pocket, has come to encapsulate the complexity of the national gun debate.

    The pistol itself remained in a holder "butt forward" inside of his jacket vest pocket, in something like this:
    [IMG]

    Even though he reached in and clicked the safety off, he didn't remove it, or point it at anyone specific. Although, his choice was an interesting one, as Zamudio carried a full sized Ruger P95. That must have been pretty heavy....