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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Senate Gun Control

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. appleseed

    appleseed Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2002
    In part, yes. Smoking has been made socially unacceptable. Although a lot of people still do it.
     
  2. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2009
    And I suspect that as the older smokers die, the number of smokers will continue to decrease.

    It's a long-term solution, but when something is so entrenched in the culture, you'll need to count on shifting norms across generations. Of course, reducing inequality can't hurt, either.
     
  3. SithSense

    SithSense Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2002
    You're missing the biggest thing: poor socialization.

    You know why there were few if any mass shootings prior to Columbine? Why they've been increasing in number, size and scope since 2002?

    Because these shooters are all have social retardation. They're so lost up their own buttholes that they have absolutely NO CLUE how to interact with other human beings if it doesn't involve the more-or-less anonymity of a glowing screen.

    Perfect cases in point--
    Before the Columbine murders, Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris were reported to have actually thrown Nazi salutes and Heil-Hitlers at a local bowling alley....and were said to have had no clue as to why the people witnessing their gooshtepping ways would be upset.

    Before the Isla Vista murders, Elliott Rodger posted a series of YouTube videos and even a novella manifesto in which he complains that life is so unfair because he is such a shut-in. (Rodger's video "Why Do Girls Hate Me?" )
    As it turns out, from age 5 until his rampage, Rodger was used as a pawn for each parent after their divorce....he was effectively used as a weapon for one parent to strike at the other. One of his intended victims was his stepmother and younger half-brother because he wanted to hurt his father for it.
    And because his younger half-brother had a better social life, meaning that he would be having more sex than Elliot. I'm not even kidding, that was actually in Rodger's manifesto...he was worried about being sexually bested by a six-year-old child.
    (If you have an hour to spare, check out this documentary about Rodger by a YouTuber going by the handle "Mumkey Jones")

    Before Newtown, Adam Lanza would lock himself in his bedroom playing video games for months on end with very little human contact outside of his tv screen. Don't let this be construed as the "Video Games Cause Violence" talking point---it is the lack of proper socialization that causes violence. It's no wonder that his first victim was his own mother...the woman who allowed him to wallow in his own self pity instead of working to actually raise him to be a sociable person.
    (PS, Lanza was also possibly a pedophile.

    Dylann Roof was a maybe-repentant racist who decided to murder the congregation of a black church, not because he WANTED to (according to him) but because he was so poorly socialized that he bought in to the notion that black people are actively trying to take over the country and they HAD to be killed in order for society to survive.
    "I have to do what I have to do." - Dylann Roof
    (Basically, the average German's view of the Jews in the leadup to WWII. "We don't WANT to create ghettoes and force the Jews into exile in other countries....but we HAVE to in order for our society to recover from the Versailles Treaty and Great Depression!")


    Let's take back 40 years to 1978. Back when my father was growing up then, it was NORMAL for high school students to keep a rifle or shotgun hanging on the back window of their truck during deer season every Friday.....because once school was done, they were changing into camo and heading to the woods for the weekend. Not once did any of them ever think about turning their gun on another person because they didn't have screens in front of them 24/7. They actually could talk to each other in person, work out disagreements face-to-face. They knew how to TALK to each other.

    But in 2018? Some jackass in California plans a school murder spree simply because his teacher wouldn't let him wear headphones in class.
    https://www.scpr.org/news/2018/02/21/80986/whittier-school-shooting-plot-thwarted-authorities/

    Gun control is only part of the equation. The other part is getting every member of our population to actually unplug and learn how to create community again.
    Japan is often cited as being an example of a low-gun and low-gun-violence country.....
    But the Japanese also have a much improved culture. Growing up, Japanese students are required to actually clean their schools....picking up trash in the parking lot, scrubbing toilets, etc. That's because Japanese schools emphasize student stewardship of the buildings and grounds as a way to promote community service.

    Here in the US? You make a child scrub a school toilet, and their parents are going to demand the principal to be fired, sued, or have their head mounted on a pike. (whichever is the most painful)
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  4. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    UK has been talking about building communities again and getting people to come together, both left and right parties have discussed this for at least a decade. We even have a minister, that tackles 'loneliness" in society and how it contributes to mental health. And the debate on social media and the Internet leading to children becoming isolated.

    Parents, for the littlest reasons, will demanded head teachers being fired.

    Yet, our homicide rate is FAR lower than the US.
     
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  5. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I think there is a sense of entitlement going on too. People like Dylann Roof think they are entitled to a country in which most people or all people look like them. People like Elliott Rodgers think they are entitled to get a “yes” response to every woman they ask on a date. Some parents think their kids are entitled to have the entire school culture revolve around them. I see this all the time, a lack of understanding that classroom structure has to accommodate the needs of 25 children, not just one.

    FWIW, community service requirements are becoming more common but I think they can probably only be required in magnet schools; my son has to do community service, including work around the school, but he is at a full magnet and I have to sign a contract indicating that I understand the requirements or he can’t attend.

    I agree about the lack of socialization skills but I think the screen time, when it has a negative effect, is more self-destructive than outwardly destructive. That said, I think more site hosting companies need to follow GoDaddy’s lead and not host sites like Daily Stormer on their servers. More social media outlets need to follow Twitter’s lead and ban the Milo Yiannopoulus’s of the world. These idiots can’t get radicalized online if the radicalization forums can’t exist.

    Here is a good article about this sense of entitlement:

    https://www.harpersbazaar.com/cultu...shootings-male-entitlement-toxic-masculinity/
     
  6. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    It turns out, your culture is an incredibly unhealthy one when you consider that ideologically it's opposed to collectivism and indoctrinates everyone on the power of the individual. There's probably even causal links in the way in which you're so insular in sport - you don't get exposed to as many diverse viewpoints by participating in communal activities that people from overseas can also enjoy and relate to. I mean, is it really a stretch to talk about the ignorance of the Average American Tourist abroad and the notion that you're bad at communicating with, and accommodating, one another?
     
  7. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Cross posted from the US Politics thread, CNN's town hall from a few days ago:

     
  8. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    You mention smoking, but here's some other example:

    - Driving drunk
    - Drinking underage
    - Public drinking
    - Riding bikes without helmets
    - Riding in or driving a car without a seatbelt
    - Topless women in PG-rated movies
    - dropping out of school at 16
    - Wearing clothing that references cigarettes, beer, or weed to school
    - Wearing hats to school
    - Being uncircumcised

    And most relevant of all:

    - Students having guns in the cars that they drive to school

    Also relevant is that perhaps people should make an effort to befriend people who don't have any friends. Some people can't get anyone to invite them places or accept their invites no matter how hard they try.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  9. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Leave the uncircumcised out of this. Just because the medical profession fleeced your parents...
     
  10. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    What happened to OZK anyway?
     
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  11. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    I didn't mean to express an opinion on circumcision.
     
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  12. Master_Rebado

    Master_Rebado Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 31, 2004
    Everyone makes the joke over here ‘everything in Australia can kill you’

    You know what probably won’t kill you in Australia?

    An assault rifle
     
  13. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
  14. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    But, down under, rifles don't kill people...


    ...Roos do.
    [​IMG]
    "It's got a gun!" [face_cowboy]
     
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  15. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    ? What's Yiannopoulis got to do with gun nuts ?

    I thought American culture was very pro-family .

    .
     
  16. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Not really. "Pro-family" is a dog-whistle term for anti-abortion. It certainly doesn't mean that America as a collective wants to work to make sure its children and elders are well-cared for. You can't explain apathy toward school shootings and schemes to cut Social Security if you don't understand America's "me first" cultural values.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  17. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Maybe of interest
     
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  18. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    “Pro-family” is dog whistle for “keeping women in traditional roles”, anti-abortion, homophobia, and any other pro-Norman-Rockwell-photo-family-only “value.”
     
  19. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013
    I don't think having a family and loving the members of your family have much to anything to do with individualism vs. collectivism. Individualism isn't living the life of the hermit. In fact, I think that having a family makes many individualist tendencies stronger. If you're already inclined to buy a gun, your children become an additional reason to buy a gun: "I must be responsible and buy a gun to protect little Johnny from all those nasty criminals" (though crime rates have been falling for decades and owning a gun probably is more of a danger than the threat of intruders).

    I also think that having children contributes to what I'd call "racism by proxy": parents act in racist ways to "protect" their children. Many people would be okay with living in mixed race communities if they are single, but some feel different about letting their children live in such a "dangerous" environment or go to a non-majority white school, and many whites resist curbing the many systemic advantages that they have because they want their children to be at an advantage. All of these types of behavior are contrary to the communal good and reinforce individualist thinking.


    I agree with what your saying about the connection of poor socialization and gun violence, but I was speaking about gun culture, not mass shooters.

    I think poor socialization is a plays a huge role in the psychology of mass shooters. Hyper-masculinity ("I can't admit weakness"/"I must conquer my (perceived) foes"), individuality ("I should be able to handle this problem on my own"), and the stigmatization of the mental ill and poor access to treatment for the mentally ill, all together help push these angry isolated people into thinking that shooting other people is the solution.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
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  20. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Donald Trump just let everyone know that he would have rushed in if he had been at the school shooting.
     
  21. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
  22. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    is it ?

    I thought American culture tended to celebrate family life , you know loving your kids , supporting each other etc. I didn't realise it had become so sinister to be pro-family .
    And what's wrong with Norman Rockwell ?

    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  23. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
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  24. Luke02

    Luke02 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Trump takes on crazy psychopath with his bare hands? Please....make....this......happen.
     
  25. Rew

    Rew Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Donald Trump literally thinks of himself as a Chuck Norris meme.