Senate Gun Control

why is it hard to grasp? you're claiming that most men aren't criminals but the fact that more of them are than women is proof that all men behave differently. it's kind of like you don't even have the loosest grasp on how logic works. like would this make any sense to you if you used a different example. "the vast majority of men aren't truck drivers, however more truck drivers are men than women, therefore all men have a greater urge to drive trucks".

if i had any advice for you it would be to try to stop viewing the world through this oversimplified lens and seeing everything in terms of stereotypes. you don't have some great insight into the human condition. what you have are biases and prejudices. allow the possibility of people surprising you and i guarantee they will.

 

By J-Rod's "rationale", having men in charge of anything is completely insane because they can't control their urge for violence.

But hey, for equal opportunity in this crappy country where you're more likely to get killed by a gun than to die in a car wreck:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...BlitzRss&utm_campaign=usatoday-newstopstories

Keep flying that stupid flag and waving that stupid Constitution, America. Idiots.

 

If you think of life as like a game of Overwatch or Fortnite, which I strongly encourage you to do, "men" are a character that is extremely overpowered relative to the "women" and "children" characters. You definitely don't want them to be even more overpowered by arming them with guns. What we've learned today is that women and children need to be armed to protect themselves from men, who should be barred from owning weapons as a special class of the mentally ill.

 

@J-Rod, you are on the losing side of history here, and as much as you can be wrong on something like this - you are.

I think you should heed tom's advice mate.

 

The problem here is that you continue to make absolute statements and attribute them to me.

Men and women tend to behave differently. Enough so that when you look at statistics, such as rates of pay or rates of incarceration, you can see how the differences play out. Just as you can see those same differences if you look at the rates of date rape committed by men vs those committed by women. (I really can't believe I'm in a forum where that has to be noted and somehow defended as a fact)

That doesn't mean that all men date rape and no women date rape.

It just means that when a boy comes to the house to pick up your daughter he should understand that PaPa is there and won't take any shenanigans.

 

Okay. Opinions noted.

I disagree. I don't think a boy should be threatened with a gun (or threatened in any way, not even implicitly) when he goes to pick up a girl.

 

absolutes are being attributed to you because that's clearly how you see the world, even if you make disclaimers that say otherwise. you acknowledge that not everyone fits your stereotypes, but you still believe them true enough that your default assumption is that every boy wants to rape your daughter. a black and white world clearly makes you more comfortable (so much less thinking!), so you willfully ignore that the majority is grey. but if you're really going to try to use the fact that they are on average paid less as evidence that women behave differently than men then this might just be hopeless.

 

OK and you have to understand that no matter how much bravado you throw at false hoc correlation logic, you can't substitute that for a good point.

Pay rates are different for several reasons. One, we've designated some professionals as "feminine" and when you get men there, such as in nursing, they're mocked for their choices. Those professions tend to be less paid and public service. Secondly, there's a really simple issue here - when a child is born, the expectation sits with the mother to interrupt, scale down, or even terminate their career entirely. Even if they take a year off, their return is likely to be on a part-time basis over full time initially which means their trajectory, relative to their male peers, takes a 2-3 year hit and as a result they fall behind in earnings by... oh I don't know, 2-3 years.

What you're basically saying is you're scared your daughter will meet a guy like you were at that age, and you want to protect her. You can't. I've said the same to my partner about my daughter; I'm not going to install apps on her phone and demand 24/7 surveillance of her. I'm not going to try and control who she dates. I'm going to raise her to be an empowered, intelligent, fearless woman who takes **** from no man and who will ask for help when she needs it because she's not crippled by insecure "pride".

It's probably telling if you're worried about your daughter's taste in men that the empowerment mentality wasn't passed on?

 

I mean, the whole idea of fathers with shotguns threatening men over their daughters is an American thing. Should tell you what a ****ed up country you guys live in. It's a rich, third world state.

 

It reflects our rape and murder culture.

 

Well also a devaluing of human life - you are after all the only developed nation with a death penalty.

 

It's just one facet of gun fetishist culture - when you have a gun, you are the law.

 

Ironically, US conservatives love their "law and order" policy whilst showing a blithe disregard for the rule of law in most cases. When the law does inconvenience them, such as saying shooting someone for being black (and possibly intruding, it's not really important) they go for judicial activism and have the law changed.

That they can't see their hypocrisy is pretty great.

 

Japan also has one, unfortunately. There were 4 executions there last year. It is also still on the books in South Korea but is under moratorium.

But that makes Japan the only First World country that uses that punishment, as the U.S. does not fit the modern parameters of being a First World country.

 

I give Japan a pass on that because applying a Western European value framework wrt of "sanctity of life" on Asian cultures is imperialistic and unreasonable. Moreover it's deaf and blind to the cultural traditions of that country. I've seen things with the way animals are treated, kids are treated, that I can't forget and never agreed with when I lived in Taiwan; but these stem from traditions as old as ours and without the same belief system. There are no normative values globally.

 

I agree that a link absolutely exists. But "the link" is that people like you think men are naturally more violent, and teach their children to expect men to be naturally more violent, and then act surprised when they grow up to meet your expectations of violence.

Why don't you just stop saying that? Why don't you change what you are teaching to young children? That might change how they behave. Radical idea, I know.

 

J-Rod please don't make me have to agree with Wocky.

 

You didn't even know they still used it until I mentioned it. And no pass. Wrong is wrong. The death penalty is wrong.

 

Japanese culture isn't a monolith anyway. There are people in Japan who are against the death penalty. There are people in Taiwan who are against cruel treatment of animals. And these beliefs developed largely independently of modern Western values (which are at best only a few hundred years old).

 

Yeah of course but you're looking at any country based on a generalisation, majority opinion counts.

 

Well you know Ender kids don't always go the way you expect , imagine one day she grows up and comes back off holiday :
"Daddy , I want you to meet my new boyfriend Brad , he's from Lubbock in Texas , that's in the USA! And he's the president of the local chapter of the NRA !"
Brad gives you a firm handshake and in a loud confident voice says "Great to meet you , Sir . Can I just ask you something , have you made Jesus your personal saviour today ? "
( I like to imagine the steam coming out of your ears )

 

I'm sure Ender wouldn't be happy. But he also wouldn't threaten to shoot him with a gun, even 'jokingly'. That's kind of the point that people have been making here.

 

No-one's threatening to shoot anyone .