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JCC Half a century later there (still) was a conspiracy in the JFK assassination

Discussion in 'Community' started by Kiki-Gonn, Nov 15, 2013.

  1. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Feb 26, 2001
    You don’t know how much restraint I’ve shown; waiting until just a week before the day.

    This event has fascinated me for a long time, ever since we studied it in a historiography class way back in college.
    Living in Dallas certainly adds to it… I heard a talk by the family that was closest to the presidential limo and it was truly stunning listening to the father describe hearing Jackie say, “My God, they’ve shot Jack” as they drove by.

    In honor of the 50th, I’m going all out. I’ll do multiple posts (whether anyone cares or not) to show just how obvious it is that there was a conspiracy of some kind; a cover up at the very least.
    And yes, I’m well acquainted with whatever conspiracy debunking book, TV special or website you’re thinking of at the moment.

    Evidence that you don’t have to be crazy to believe in a conspiracy…

    -Ruling that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) acted entirely alone:
    The Warren Commission (boo, hiss)

    -Ruling that there was a conspiracy (“probably died as the result of a conspiracy”):
    The House Select Committee on Assassinations (70’s)

    -Couldn’t Decide:
    The American Bar Association (mock trial of LHO in the 90’s): Hung Jury
    Texas State Bar Association (mock trial of LHO in 2013): Hung Jury
    Bib Fartuna likes this.
  2. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Jul 13, 2008
    And in the end, Lee Harvey Oswald will still have acted alone. A fitting metaphor.
  3. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Nov 8, 2001
    Do you believe in UFOs, astral projections, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trance mediums, the Loch Ness monster and the theory of Atlantis?
  4. Adam of Nuchtern

    Adam of Nuchtern Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Sep 2, 2012
  5. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Feb 26, 2001
    Now that I've, in a very gentlemanly manner, let people get their shots in let's begin.

    Some of the people who believed there was a conspiracy:
    President of the United States during the investigation, Lyndon Baines Johnson. Believed it to his dying day
    Attorney General of the United States during the investigation (and JFK’s brother so he had a slight interest in the case) Robert Kennedy,
    Majority Leader and Warren Commissioner Hale Boggs
    Senator and Warren Commissioner Richard Russell
    Nixon chief of staff H.R. "Bob" Haldeman
    Senator and former Church Committee member Richard Schweiker
    G. Robert Blakey, Chief Counsel to the House Select Committee on Assassinations and Professor of Law at Notre Dame
    Army member of Cuban Coordinating Committee Joseph Califano
    Chief of Special Operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff under JFK, Colonel Fletcher Prouty
    Ken O'Donnell, former Special Assistant to JFK
    Admiral George Burkley, JFK’s personal physician (who was with JFK in Dallas)
    Paul O’Connor (one of three men who performed the autopsy on JFK)
    Paul Grudy, mortician who buried Lee Harvey Oswald
    Dr. Robert McClelland, worked on the dying president at Parkland
    Dick Goodwin, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs
    Dennis David, Navy Petty Officer who saw autopsy film and tissue slides
    Aubrey Rike- Dallas funeral home employee who handled body
    The Newman family (closest spectators to the limo)
    The Willis family (eye witnesses)
    Mary Woodward (journalist closest to the car)
    Dallas Police Chief during the investigation, Jesse Curry
    Don Archer, Dallas Police Department (DPD) officer who interacted with Ruby after Oswald’s killing
    Billy Grammar, DPD officer who says Jack Ruby warned the DPD the night before Oswald’s killing
    Dallas Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig
    Beverly Oliver (says she witnessed a meeting between Oswald and Ruby before the assassination)
    One of the world’s leading forensic pathologists, Cyril Wright (long time critic of the WC)
    Brother of Sam Giancana (SG was the head of the Chicago mafia at the time of the assassination)
    Former Senate Investigator Harold Weisenberg
    Nikita Khrushchev
    Fidel Castro
    Mikhail Gorbachev
  6. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Aug 16, 2002
    Was there a conspiracy? Maybe technically. Oswald was the only shooter, but someone else may have been "in" on it. Abraham Lincoln's assassination was the product of a conspiracy. William McKinley may have been the victim of an anarchist conspiracy. Is it a conspiracy by some powerful people or organization, e.g., Lyndon Johnson, the CIA, the mafia (lol), Castro, the USSR, KAHMMIES? No.

    Speaking of McKinley, why are there never wild theories about him? The guy who attempted to assassinate Theodore Roosevelt thought he had something to do with McKinley's death (got in the way of his meteoric rise), and he wasn't exactly alone in that suspicion. Garfield only died because an incompetent doctor didn't practice proper sterilization (which had, along with germ theory, already been pretty well-established by that point). Was the doctor not incompetent but INTENTIONALLY (dun dun DUN) infecting the wound? I think JFK only gets attention and the other two don't because his assassination was particularly traumatic because of mass media, culture, etc. and his death is in living memory.
    MrZAP, Juliet316 and Ramza like this.
  7. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Jul 13, 2008
    Yes folks, consensus is the only true metric by which the truth can be measured. That's why hell exists, angels routinely intervene in our daily lives, and the answer to most calculus problems is "**** if I know."
    MrZAP and Saintheart like this.
  8. Saintheart

    Saintheart Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Dec 16, 2000
    A coverup, yes. Conspiracy, no. I like the most recent theory out that JFK had his head blown off by a secret Service agent who discharged his weapon accidentally.
    Darth Eddie likes this.
  9. DarthTunick

    DarthTunick SfC Part IV Commissioner star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Nov 26, 2000
    I thought a comedian killed Kennedy?
    Saintheart likes this.
  10. Kyle Katarn

    Kyle Katarn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Jul 10, 1998

    "I heard it was a lone gunman."
  11. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Feb 26, 2001
    In the words of Darth Guy, put away your straw man.

    Also, the opinions of people like the POTUS, AG, Chief of Police, Dallas Police officers, Warren Commission members, medical professionals who saw JFK for themselves, the closest eye witnesses, people in power who had a stake in the case, etc. is extremely relevant (and just the start). Attacking that is just silly.

    Speaking of silly, Marina Oswald still lives here! WTF, wouldn't you rather live anywhere if you were her people?! Now that is whacky.
  12. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Jul 13, 2008
    Who's strawmanning? You've made two appeals to truth by consensus within the course of two posts. You cite various "authority" figures but give no rationale as to what reason we have to assume their opinion - which, incidentally, is not inherently more informed by their position considering the question up for debate - is of a substantially more well-reasoned nature than that of your average doubter, save for their chronological and political proximity to the event in question. What has essentially been proposed to this point is no better than common peer pressure. "Behold these various individuals who are not of the opinion of you, o doubter! Feel the immense shame such isolation implies! Shame! SHAME!"

    Where's the scientific beef, Kiki?
  13. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Mar 3, 2003
    My favourite theory, and the best one that fits IMHO, is that Lee Harvey Oswald fired the first two shots (including the first one that missed) and the third shot was accidentally fired by Secret service Agent George Hickey.
    Saintheart likes this.
  14. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Feb 18, 2001
    You forgot Bill Hicks.
    MrZAP, Mortimer Snerd and Kiki-Gonn like this.
  15. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Feb 26, 2001
    We still have a week!

    I'm setting the stage and both those consensus points are clearly relevant in that effort.
    The strawman is implying that that's my case.
    Don't worry, we'll get to how every lone gunman recreation, even 50 years later, fudges the exact same measurements, how there's never been a repeatable experiment proving the magic bullet theory or even that you could fire Oswald's rifle fast enough, how not one ballistics expert called by the WC would agree with them, how the first shot alone is clearly impossible, etc. etc.
  16. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Nov 8, 2001
    Jenny McCarthy is a celebrity.
    Jenny McCarthy is the mother of an autistic child.
    Jenny McCarthy is an anti-vaccine supporter spreading the information that vaccines are linked to autism in children. Given that she has an autistic child, is famous and is close to that subject, she is more believable than scientists.
  17. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Jul 13, 2008
    I'll be reading with great interest. Sarcastic retorts aside, this stuff fascinates me even if I disagree pretty strongly with the conclusions.

    Just promise me you won't post an audio clip of yourself saying "BAECK AND TO THA LEFT" a la Kevin Costner. :p

    Edit: Which reminds me, I need to get this out of the way:
  18. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Sep 16, 2005
    C'mon, it's beyond believable that a conspiracy could remain so shrouded in secrecy for decades. Isn't it?
  19. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Feb 26, 2001
    She's a what?!

    On a more a serious note, official bodies that investigated the crime, doctors, police, etc. are obviously more akin to the scientists in your post than JM (pros with proper training).
    Your jab does however aptly apply to many of the people who've written books on the case (both sides).
  20. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Feb 26, 2001
    Fair enough, I look forward to your analysis at the end of this.
  21. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Apr 27, 2005
    You know, it's funny, the Kennedy assassination used to fascinate me when I was a kid. I truly did obsess over it whenever the anniversary came around when I was younger. I don' t know if it's because I've moved on to less morbid/sad/depressing things or if there's a distance that comes with the passage of time or simply because I've become less tolerant of conspiracy theories as I've grown - up, but I honestly thought I'd be more interested again as we come on this half - century mark of the assassination and there's I've barely even felt a twinge of interest whenever it's been brought up this whole month.
  22. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 8

    Apr 17, 2006
    It was the JOOZ
    Obi-Zahn Kenobi likes this.
  23. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Mar 4, 2011
    I think there was a cover up but not a conspiracy. I don't think Oswald acted alone, I do believe that Jack Ruby shot him to keep him from running his mouth (people actually bought his story that he didn't want Jackie to testify? LOL), I do believe there was another gunman on the grassy knoll.

    But I don't believe that the Soviet government, the Cuban government, the Mafia, the newspapers, the FBI, the CIA, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, people who hate Catholics, people who hate Bostonians, and Barack Obama's Kenyan father were all in on some convoluted conspiracy either.

    I think what happened was that people wanted answers and wanted them quickly, and the investigation was quick and shoddy.

    That said, I don't have a high opinion of the Kennedys and if I were going to peg an organization in a conspiracy, it would be the Mafia.
    Katana_Geldar and Kiki-Gonn like this.
  24. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Feb 26, 2001
    This is the problem with making a thread like this, you can't possibly keep up.

    A fair point but there are a lot of things shrouded in secrecy.
    -Ghengis Khan was the most powerful man in the world when he died. He wanted his burial site to be a secret. It still is to this day.
    -Why is Miley Cyrus a successful recording artist?
    -What happened to Jimmy Hoffa?
    -Who in Russia is assassinating people with (help me out science geeks) polonium?
  25. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Aug 16, 2002
    Man, I must get into way too many fistfights at my team's NHL games 'cause I can't remember half the things I say on the JCC. :p