1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

JCC Half a century later there (still) was a conspiracy in the JFK assassination

Discussion in 'Community' started by Kiki-Gonn, Nov 15, 2013.

  1. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Feb 26, 2001
    I don't disagree, I said a head exploding can send bits anywhere in the statement.
    The third shot is a hot mess.

    Speaking of a hot mess...

    After the WC’s abysmal failure to convince anyone, including half the commissioners, of the LG theory pressure finally built up to the point that the House Select Committee on Assassinations was born.
    I described the WC as trying to square a circle. The HSCA then took that badly squared circle and tried to turn it into a triangle.

    Their ultimate ruling on this case was that JFK was, “Probably killed” by a conspiracy.

    The man in charge of the unwieldy mess of the HSCA was G. Robert Blakey, Federal Prosecutor, Law professor at Notre Dame, experienced organized crime investigator, etc.

    Every time the HSCA’s conspiracy ruling is mentioned, you will hear about the credited, then discredited, then (to some) re-credited audio evidence recording four shots.
    Blakey is on record (and video) saying they still would have ruled conspiracy without that but no one pays attention to that (and he’s quite right).

    He absolutely believes…
    1. There was a conspiracy
    2. It was the mob (God, we haven’t even gotten into that)
    3. Members of the US intelligence community worked diligently to cover up the facts of the case
    4. LHO was the shooter (even though the committee believed in multiple shooters).

    Thanks for muddying the waters buddy!

    Let's hear from the man himself...
    "Any effort to explain what happened in Dallas must explain Lee Harvey Oswald, and Lee Harvey Oswald is a mystery wrapped up in an enigma, hidden behind a riddle. Your explanation of him tells me more about you than about the evidence about his life. He is not an easy man to explain."
    “I no longer believe that we were able to conduct an appropriate investigation of the Agency (CIA) and its relationship to Oswald”
    "I now no longer believe anything the Agency [CIA] told the committee any further than I can obtain substantial corroboration for it from outside the Agency for its veracity”
    “CIA clearly did lie about the case. For example, Helms lied about the case.”
    “Most disturbing was the destruction by the Army intelligence of Oswald's Army intelligence file. The suspicion immediately was that this was part of a cover up.”
    “Breckinridge (CIA), however, suggested that he create a new point of contact person who might "facilitate" the process of obtaining and reviewing materials. He introduced me to Joannides, who, he said, he had arranged to bring out of retirement to help us. He told me that he had experience in finding documents; he thought he would be of help to us… I was not told of Joannides' background with the DRE, a focal point of the investigation. Had I known who he was, he would have been a witness who would have been interrogated under oath by the staff or by the committee.”
  2. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 8

    Nov 20, 2012
    The plot thickens (more)!
    Kiki-Gonn likes this.
  3. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Feb 26, 2001
    You bring up an interesting point. How did the tribe escape the list of nationalities and ethnicities pointed at by various people (some same, some not)? Sorry V, but the Cubans and Italians get top billing in the, "What non-Anglos are responsible for this atrocity?!" sweepstakes.

    HSCA ballistics...
    Luckily my self-appointed task is not to explain what you're about to see. Since it is LG, I just have to call out the errors, contradictions, logic fails, etc.

    I firmly believe they, unlike the WC (boo, hiss) wanted to find the truth.
    I can only explain the below by noting we what we all know, that every adult American was snorting cocaine on a regular basis in the 70's.


    Shock, we're back to proving the LG theory with drawings that might or might not reflect physical reality. So above is basically
    the exact WC theory I took on earlier.

    Here's where the HSCA decides to do their own thing,

    Read the text, they determined the bullet path from the botched autopsy. What else were they going to do, exhume JFK a decade later?

    I'll be brief... bullet runs parallel to the street. Really?
    We've got the jacket, shirt and MEASUREMENTS from the autopsy telling us it was noeffingwhere near that high.
    My God, how much powder was on the table that day? It must have looked like a scene from Scarface.

    The two exhibits don't even match.
    Arawn_Fenn likes this.
  4. Darth_Invidious

    Darth_Invidious Force Ghost star 6

    Jun 21, 1999
    I wonder if someday we'll have the technology that can analyze the Zapruder film to the point that the actual bullets and their trajectories can be pinpointed in no uncertain terms and settle this matter once and for all.
  5. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Nov 8, 2001
    "Highlight section 32-Beta... zoom... enhance..."
    Saintheart and Kiki-Gonn like this.
  6. Aytee-Aytee

    Aytee-Aytee Jedi Master star 5

    Jul 20, 2008
    It was Johnson.
  7. Darth_Invidious

    Darth_Invidious Force Ghost star 6

    Jun 21, 1999
    Of course, it's all a matter of turning Detective-vision on. :p
    Saintheart likes this.
  8. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Feb 26, 2001
    I think the problem is the footage is so grainy, etc. and it's still the source no matter what tech you apply to it.
    There is a guy in the Brit doc The Men Who Killed Kennedy who applied a process from his area of expertise to the photos, film, etc. and says he's proven multiple shooters with a scientific, repeatable experiment.
    I don't know if anyone ever bothered to test that claim, not saying I believe this guy. Just a related note.

    Okay, more on the HSCA in the USA...

    Head shot...
    I for one find this highly useful in examining the crime of the century.
    For instance I didn't know Kennedy was a Roswell style alien. Now we know why they wouldn't let him get a proper autopsy, why his brain and tissue slides disappeared out of the National Archives (fact), etc.

    It's all coming together!
  9. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Feb 26, 2001
    See I said Id get into this dammit...



    This bullet also travels on a perfect level from start to finish which seems odd. I understand them saying it was a straight line through JFK for the magic bullet because it has to be to justify their theory.
    But straight through after entering the skull? More importantly...

    Um, the drawing from the autopsy (not a 15 years later drawing), the exact description of the head entrance wound in the WC, the autopsy picture. We have plenty of reasons to discount this image/theory out of hand.
    I honestly have no idea how in the hell they moved it up that far.
  10. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 8

    Nov 20, 2012
    Kennedy was a model T-800 obviously. Skynet doesn't want to release images due to fears that Sarah and John Connor will find them.
  11. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Feb 26, 2001
    Last time for this foolishness (no, not the thread in general, it goes on)...
    This is a drawing, not the pic which I don't know I'm allowed to post. It's exact...
    Compare the entrance wound in relation to the ear...

    Seriously, not worthy of further discussion (refer to my 70's cocaine theory)

    Next... Lee Harvey Oswald, International Man of Mystery?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!
  12. Condition2SQ

    Condition2SQ Jedi Knight star 4

    Sep 5, 2012
    What? That's it? As I said, (inter)national fame, fortune, and immortality was/is awaiting anyone who can prove that the Warren Commission was wrong and that Oswald wasn't the assassin. You have to come up with something more than a simple joke as to why these men--each one of them--decided to eschew these things and simply confirm the prosaic finding that, yup, Oswald did indeed kill the President.

    How did I let myself get sucked into this vortex?
  13. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Feb 26, 2001
    I'll address, let me get this out 1st...

    I really slammed this out, forgive all spelling errors, etc. if you would:

    There is actually a lot of evidence (but no smoking gun) that LHO was anything but the bumpkin Marine he’s been portrayed as. Many researchers, including of the lone gunman variety, think Oswald’s ties to the intelligence world is legit and the cause of gov’t stonewalling, etc.

    I’m running out of time so here…

    J Edgar freaking Hoover himself listened to the wire tap of Oswald in Mexico City and told the President (LBJ) that it wasn’t Oswald’s voice. Logically that would imply someone was impersonating Oswald/using his name in Mexico.

    James Hosty (Dallas FBI, in charge of Oswald’s file prior to the assassination)

    “In a court motion filed last week, the CIA acknowledged for the first time that deceased CIA officer George Joannides lived in New Orleans while handling contacts with an anti-Castro student organization whose members had a series of encounters with accused presidential assassin Lee Oswald in August 1963.” (Kiki- I have not had time to read that motion/verify but it’s from a very sober conspiracy site. YES, that’s the same George Joannides that Robert Blakey talked about above! The legitimacy is corroborated by Blakey’s comments about Joannides above. So the undercover CIA agent who was the HSCA’s contact to help them dig up documents, etc. was the spymaster of the Cubans Oswald had contact with in New Orleans. You can’t make this stuff up.

    “I was approached by one of the senior agents from the counterintelligence squad and was told there were new orders (hours after the assassination), I was not to talk to Oswald anymore, I was not to cooperate with the police department in any manner concerning Oswald’s background. I have since determined that those orders came from assistant director William Sullivan who was in charge of the Foreign Counterintelligence Squad, he was also the person who had direct liaison with the National Security Council. The NSC is the President, Vice-President, Secretary of State and Secretary of Defense.”

    Oswald had been in contact with Kostikov who was the Soviet KGB chief of assassinations and sabotage in the Western Hemisphere (months before the assassination in Mexico City).

    (Kiki) Hosty by the way is the FBI agent who admitted, on video, to destroying the note Oswald left for the FBI before the assassination.

    G. Robert Blakey

    “Was this man's character being molded either by the Soviets or by our own intelligence community? Were our own people molding him? Why was no action taken against him? Why, when this came to the attention of his Marine superiors was action not initiated? This man was a man with a security clearance; this man was a man who had access to highly sophisticated materials”

    “Among the people that Oswald met in Mexico City was a man named Valery Kostikov in the Soviet embassy. He was in that directorate of the KGB, to which he was assigned, which in the Russian phrase means 'wet affairs': assassinations. Here you have, in September, a direct contact between Lee Harvey Oswald, a defector to the Soviet Union, a committed Marxist, and a man whose function was to set up assassinations”

    “But then, you find David Ferrie, who is an investigator for Carlos Marcello, being a boyhood friend to Lee Harvey Oswald and with him that summer, and with Carlos Marcello at that very point in time. You have an immediate connection between a man who had the motive, opportunity and means to kill Kennedy and the man who killed Kennedy.”

    “Here you have him meeting with Sylvia Odio, who is, in the context, an anti-Castro Cuban. Within days, he's meeting with high-level people involved in assassinations in the Soviet Embassy. You see him meeting with people in the Cuban Embassy. You see him returning to this country. You have him having conversations on the phone with people in Spanish.”

    “The files and the Agency (CIA) agents connected to the DRE should have been made available to the commission and the committee. That the information in the files and the agents who could have supplemented it were not made available to the commission and the committee amounts to willful obstruction of justice.”

    Dick Goodwin, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs: "We know the CIA was involved, and the Mafia. We all know that." (Kiki- I’m not endorsing that so stop)

    Fidel Castro: “What is your government doing to catch the other assassins? It took about three people."

    Lyndon Johnson: “I never believed that Oswald acted alone”

    Nicholas Katzenbach, former Asst. Attorney General: “But it's not silliness to speculate that somebody was behind Oswald.....I'd almost bet on the [anti-Castro] Cubans."

    Senator Richard Russell, WC member: "We have not been told the truth about Oswald." “(Personal note taken down by the senator during a WC meeting) Warren asked about CIA, ‘did they hae anything’… He mentions 5G as McCone (head of CIA) had told me. He knew all I did and more about CIA. Something strange is happening”

    Quick hits on this subject (e.g. no more quotations)…

    Famously, when Oswald was arrested in New Orleans for a simple street scuffle in which he was handing out pro-Castro leaflets, he told the police he needed to speak to the FBI. They were called, consulted with Oswald and left. They didn’t say to the NPD, “Why the hell did you call us to talk to this nobody” Some might find this suspicious.

    A LA state representative living in the one horse town of Clinton, LA recognized Oswald as soon as he saw him on TV. Oswald, who could not drive, visited the sleepy bayou town and sought out the rep even though his house was out of town. He (I’ll look up the name, this guy’s story is on video) immediately called the FBI and told them they should investigate what Oswald was doing in Clinton because it was so odd. They immediately responded that they already knew about Oswald’s mysterious trip to Clinton. Obviously then he was on their radar long before the assassination.

    A pair of Houston journalists in the 90’s took LHO’s military ID card to the Marines and asked them to explain why he had the same kind of ID card as Gary Powers, the pilot of the top secret U2 spy plane that was shot down over Russia. They could not offer an explanation. That card has been in evidence since Oswald’s arrest)

    It is widely accepted (e.g. not just conspiracy kooks) that LHO arrived in Russia speaking Russian well enough to be mistaken for a native. How a poor, constant school truant who never had a Russian teacher managed that raises the simpler explanation that he was trained in it after entering the military. Normal leathernecks of course were not trained in Russian, but someone recruited into the intelligence world would be.

    The highest ranking Soviet Intelligence defector of the Cold War says, for whatever that’s worth, that he can see Russian cipher’s in LHO’s writing.

    The Office of Naval Intelligence (Oswald’s card was ONI), in response to a Freedom of Information Act request: “seems to have misplaced all of its records related to the assassination of President Kennedy, the records of the Dallas ONI office, the investigative records and reports of the defection to the Soviet Union of former Marine Lee Harvey Oswald, the investigative reports of
  14. DantheJedi

    DantheJedi Jedi Master star 5

    Aug 23, 2009
    I'm currently listening to this movie podcast talking about all the different JFK assassination movies. You can listen to it HERE.
  15. Saintheart

    Saintheart Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Dec 16, 2000
    I dunno, to me, the frantic whitewashing of Oswald's military/intelligence associations has more of a coverup in order to avoid the association rather than eliminating a CIA/Naval stooge who was recruited specifically to kill the President. It looks more to me like he was a minor asset who went rogue rather than he was acting under orders to kill JFK.
  16. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Feb 26, 2001
    I absolutely do not think he acted under orders from any US agency.

    For the thread in general...
    Here's a brief clip from Anderson Cooper in response to SOS John Kerry questioning the LG theory.
    Note his two experts are pretty mainstream guys (NYT reporter and DG) who do not believe in multiple shooters.

    Even so, look how interesting the facts they list are.

    This fits pretty well with our LHO International Man of Mystery chapter

  17. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Feb 26, 2001

    Hang out in the vortex, have a drink.

    I would actually disagree with your premise, I don't have to explain their incompetence to point it out. Do you have to know why all the smart people behind the Obamacare website rollout failed so miserably at their basic task?

    Furthermore I wasn't in those endless hours of meetings, etc.
    A serious historical inquiry would be needed to answer that question and I'm not doing that unless someone wants to pay me.
    I'd happily switch jobs in a second for equal pay to investigate this.

    Out of respect though, I will tell you my personal feeling on how a group of intelligent people landed so far off the mark.

    I may not work hard but I'm observant and have worked in projects for years. I've seen unwieldy messes where competing ideas and agendas turn the final product into a horrible Frankenstein that tries to be all things to all people and fails to satisfy any one party's needs well. Software projects are littered with corpses like this, including the one I'm on.

    Now throw in the classic mistake in design which I mentioned previously, garbage in - garbage out. The foundation of their work was the WC.

    That to me is the HSCA.

    That's how you get a panel of experts to produce something (see above) that is contradictory in one place, off the mark in another.
    Arawn_Fenn and Saintheart like this.
  18. yankee8255

    yankee8255 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    May 31, 2005
    The Warren Commission used iPhones?:eek:]-}
  19. Saintheart

    Saintheart Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Dec 16, 2000
    Yes. Earl Warren was actually a Time Lord who stopped by Steve Jobs' house a few days before he died to pick one up.
  20. Bib Fartuna

    Bib Fartuna Jedi Knight star 4

    Nov 4, 2012

    Watching this now...
  21. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Feb 26, 2001
    It's on my TiVo and I got a whole minute into the Frontline: Who was LHO last night. Sigh. Maybe this weekend.
  22. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Feb 26, 2001
    Your intrepid reporter is just feeling the warmth flow back into his body after freezing to death (almost) at Dealey Plaza.
    It was beautiful yesterday, arctic today. My fret are completely numb.

    If there had been one fourth this much security 50 years ago JFK would not have been shot.
    Buildings are closed, windows cannot be opened, everyone is getting searched, etc.
    Dallas is trying to make damn sure nothing goes wrong today.

    Saw John King, got interviewed by Australian TV (score!).

    Was giving a nice old lady a verbal tour (her son was at the official function past the police checkpoint) and ended up lecturing to a whole group, including a Dallas cop). I was very same, trust me.

    On yeah, I also circumvented security and absolutely would have been arrested if caught. Be back in a bit...
  23. Game3525

    Game3525 Jedi Master star 4

    Jun 25, 2008
    Oswald shot Kennedy.....there was no conspiracy.
    Juliet316 likes this.
  24. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Feb 26, 2001
    Later Game, we're coming up on the moment of silence.

    Just drove by the Trade Mart where Kennedy was on his way to.
  25. Skywalker8921

    Skywalker8921 Jedi Knight star 4

    Jun 9, 2011
    Watched a little of JFK: 3 Shots That Changed America on History, but probably won't watch all of it now and will buy the DVD later.

    Perhaps ironically, I'm at my grandparents' house for a few days, and over lunch just a little while ago my grandfather (he's 74) shared with me some of the memories he has of that weekend. Surreal.

    Edit: Caught a few more minutes of "3STCA,"; I was stunned - my jaw almost fell - when Oswald was shot.
    Kiki-Gonn likes this.