Lit Han and Leia are jerks to their kids in "Ambush at Corellia"

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Brenapp, Dec 29, 2012.

  1. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    I remember when I first tried reading the first book in the Corellian Trilogy years ago; I didn't know whether to laugh or be outraged at the poor manner in which Han and Leia treat their children in it. Honestly, it sounded to me as though, a lot of the time, they don't like them and resent having them around. All the way through, they spend most of their time telling the kids to shut up, or get lost, or avoid spending time with them. Now I know kids sometimes need some discipline, but I really don't think Jacen, Jaina and Anakin are that bad, and can't help finding Han and Leia's treatment of them a bit cold at times.
  2. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    It's funny (thought not in the fun way) that the Corellian Trilogy is one of the few where I don't remember Han&Leia being more or less terrible parents... Then, again, I hated all that plotline, so I might not have payed appropriate attention...:p
  3. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    Only in Ambush at Corellia?
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  4. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    locking them away with nanny on a lifeless halfexploded world... [face_tee_hee]
    sending them to a lunatic Jedi wannabe Master for training on a dangerous Sith world full of deadly creatures and with a lack of safety measures closer to the Imperial boarder than any other world... [face_batting]
    imprison them at home with a fearful droid and a walking carpet, homeschooling them in how to become a sociopath because they were not allowed any friends until they were sent off to Jedi boot camp.. well except the one time they ran off and made friends with coruscant undercity dwellers that is.. [face_rofl]
    Then again, nobody watched them on Yavin IV when they went on trips to dangerland and tried to get killed by nature, aliens, imperials, darksiders, assassin droids, bounty hunters and each other even... [face_whistling]

    and this was before they returned to their parents side... upon which Leia immedeately sent her firstborn to the frontlines with the X-Wing squadron that sees most action while Jacen and Anakin were told to settle their philosophical debate during deep undercover infiltration missions into enemy core territory where even walls can eat you alive. Oh but it gets better! :-B

    After one kid actually did not return alive, they encouraged the others to follow his example!

    Well one tried to get lost in the dangerous Unknown Regions but returned alive. The other flirted with the suicidal girlfriend of the dead kid nearling committing double suicide yet unsuccessful too. But don't worry, it took some time. But after joining one of the unknown region terrors bug orgies, they finally managed to find a way. Pulling straws, or rather tassels, Jacen turned psychopatic massmurderer and Jaina killed him, hoping a dark side act would be her own undoing too. She survived.. not even Abloth wanted to take her into the club of the braindead Jedi children.. so I wonder what will be up next for her. Dying in childbirth maybe? :p
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  5. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    You said it @CeiranHarmony. [face_thinking] Actually is there a book where Han and Leia are good parents?

    Still, considering Leia's dad was Darth Vader, she's still showing a positive curve :)
  6. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    don't get me wrong, I actually believe they are good parents ;) the books just do not justice to that sadly
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  7. cthugha Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2010
    star 3
    So what you're saying is Han & Leia have an actual existence that is independent of (and actually more real than) their appearances in the books/comics/etc.? Now there's an interesting ontological concept...

    But then, that's what fandom is all about, right? Still it's interesting to stop and think about these assumptions sometimes...
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  8. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Yeah, I've been beating this drum for years. Leia & Han were horrible parents.

    And they did such a good job with their own kids that they got given another one.
  9. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    They are just terrible parents in general.

    Edit: LOL, posted without reading the rest of the thread, apparently this is not an uncommon conclusion.
    Last edited by _Catherine_, Dec 29, 2012
  10. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5

    they are the best parents that, driven by circumstances and dark times are forced to do things they'd wish they'd not have to. like protect their kids from assassination and kidnapping attempts due to them being famous galactic leaders. could they give up their position and escape to have just a silent family life? sure, but that'd not be optimal either, with them no longer in control of what's best for the galaxy. Thus, they had to choose: protect the galaxy for all children... or just their own. both at the cost of some for the other. A terrible choice for them with each option not optimal.

    ultimately they got used to being rebels, reformers and revolutionaries which lead them to a life of either making the law or breaking it, not merely living by it. not the best rolemodels for their kids indeed, yet all done with the best intentions. Same could be said about all parents actually real or fictional. point is, they are not harming or endangering their kids on purpose but merely involuntarily situations arise where they couldn't protect them as much as they'd hoped to be able to.. or where they failed to prepare their kids in hope for creating a better future for them rather than have them repeat their parents mistakes and learn them on their own.

    it was a tough choice for them to give their kids to Winter, but one that was better for the kids at the time. ultimately the recluse did not keep the Empire away, but Winter could give them more love and time than their busy parents could, so that is what counts here, not Anoth Base.

    Giving up a child to someone better suited to give them what they need is a tough choice but one made for the kids best interest, even if they might misinterpret it later on as the parent rejecting them, which is not always true! I would have preferred them giving up being a hero and ruling the galaxy in favor of a small silent family live on a moisture farm with family (I am looking at you LUKE!) but that did not happen. and that might have been more selfish than trying to save the entire galaxy at the expense of their own love and family life.

    give or take, one can see it both ways. novels portray it onesided though sadly and as such did not portray the Solos in full depth with all these decisions. but it is in the open when reading between the lines I think.
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  11. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    I don't feel they were intentionally bad parents - they thought they were doing what was right. It was just always wrong.
  12. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    It was a tough choice for them to encourage their daughter to murder their only surviving son, but one that was better for the kids at the time. Wait, that doesn't look right.
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  13. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    That son did try to murder them, tortured their nephew and did murder Mara.
  14. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    Agreed, the fact that Luke loved his father who he only knew as an evil monster more than Han and Leia loved their firstborn son was another way they were kind of jerks to their kids.
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  15. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I still say Leia is good for a positive curve - she hasn't tried to murder Han yet and she's never tortured any of her kids [face_not_talking]
  16. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Might be interesting to track the pattern of behaviour.
    In Empire's End, they have the kids with them- and Palpatine attempts to possess Anakin.
    In the Jedi Academy Trilogy Jacen and Jaina end up in the undercity- and Leia takes them to Yavin, where Jacen promptly ends up fighting Exar Kun's monsters
    In The Crystal Star, Leia brings the kids with her on a diplomatic mission. They're kidnapped.
    In The Black Fleet Crisis, Han's looking after the kids- but is sent away on mission- and he's kidnapped (or at least captured)
    In The New Rebellion Leia leaves the kids behind to rescue Luke.
    In The Corellia Trilogy they bring the kids on a diplomatic mission- and they're kidnapped.

    And so forth.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Dec 29, 2012
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  17. Mechalich Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2010
    star 4
    I would note that it is decidely unfair to judge Han and Leia's parenting by the social constructs of 20th century Western civilization on the planet Earth. The social system of Republic-based galactic culture in Star Wars is very different from our own. Leia, for example, is the product of a modern pseudo-aristocracy that more closely resembles the social systems of three hundred years ago than anything present today. Han was brought up in a lawless failed society with no sustained institutions, comparable more to Somalia than any western democracy. And the differences go even deeper than that.

    For example, the Solo children are indeed home schooled by a combination of C-3PO and other droids (and briefly, in the Corellian trilogy, by a Drall tutor). There is no evidence to say how common, or not, this is in the Star Wars galaxy. We have effectively no understanding whatsoever of common educational practices across the different social systems of the Star Wars universe. It may be the norm that children of middle-class and above parentage are primarily taught one on one by their parents and household droids. It is even probable that Luke, who grew up in a homesteading environment, learned whatever formal education he possesses through such means. In all honesty, even the basic concept of the family unit is vastly rearranged in Star Wars - a household is a group of people plus their droids and possibly any flesh and blood servants or slaves.

    The social history of Star Wars is a woefully underdeveloped field. It could be argued that we know more about the daily life of the average Yuuzhan Vong than we do the average galactic citizen. Given that, it's hard to make much of a judgment on Han and Leia's actions as parents.
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  18. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    There's also the issue of the children being powerful Force-users. In Black Fleet Crisis (I think Before The Storm) it's brought up that a Force-powered tantrum can be pretty terrifying.

    Leia being harsh in Ambush at Corellia is mentioned, in the book, to be because she can never know for certain if it's "ordinary childhood naughtiness" or the dark side getting a hold.

    In Planet of Twilight we also see her having nightmares about it- and her worries about how court intrigues might turn the children against each other.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Dec 29, 2012
  19. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    Fear clouds her judgement... fear projects her nightmares into Anakin, who believes it to be visions. And all that thx to her time with Palpatine trying to take over her kids as well as Luke trying to get her kids for his Jedi dream no matter if that is what Leia and Han wanted for them.
  20. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I recall one of the Star Wars Tales comics making the point that Leia was avoiding full training precisely because she was aware of how powerful she was, and afraid of what she could become.
  21. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Luke didn't even know his father. Luke was more in love with the idea of having a father than the man himself. How would he have felt on the Death Star if at that point he knew that his father tried to murder his mother(and by extension himself and his sister)?

    None the less how does one deal with having a child that is a mass murderer? Do you constantly forgive, forgive and forgive - or does there come a point where that is no longer an option?
  22. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    you may start to wonder if it has a point and try to see it their way? :p
  23. son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
    Damned if you do; damned if you don't.
  24. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    I would guess probably not much differently than he felt knowing that his father tortured his sister and best friend, tried to murder him over the Death Star, murdered his mentor right in front of him, and was complicit in the destruction of his sister's planet, the genocide of the Jedi Knights, and the murder of his aunt and uncle. Luke sensed that there was still good in Vader despite twenty years of atrocities, but I guess Jacen was irredeemable after being evil for a few months for some reason. Don't try to capture him so he can be rehabilitated, or bring him to justice so he can be tried in a court of law. Just assassinate him before he can embarrass the family any more. That's the ticket.

    You don't have to forgive someone to not murder them. Remember when Obi-Wan jumped down from the ceiling on Utapau and stabbed General Grievous through the brain before he even knew he was there? Or when Mace's posse just walked into Palpatine's office and shot him in the face without giving him a chance to surrender? Except neither of those things happened because Jedi aren't assassins. I guess an evil robot and Satan deserved more of a chance than Jacen did.
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  25. AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    The Last Command.
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