Han and Leia fans unite!!!!

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by jewlmc, Nov 30, 2000.

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  1. RNolan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2000
    star 3
    jewlmc; "Well I guess I just like the fairytale aspect of it.

    I mean it is a fairytale according to GL the inventor of the whole thing! Right? ;-)

    So I don't know. Just like I said when Ep II and III are done, we will have a clearer picture on love and marriage in the GFFA.

    It just seems so mundane of them to say "I love you. Let's date."

    I just think that in stories like SW "I love you." in a romantic sense, is NOT a casual thing to say like it is in real life. It is not just thrown around so easily.

    Seriously, what was your gut instinct when you saw ROTJ? Age regardless?"

    I was more concerned with what happened to the Imperial Fleet to be honest .

    Seriously though it raises an interesting issue that if you Han and Leia fans will allow me a little space to develop .Strictly this as little to do with them but I must talk about jewlmc's pro-fairy tale view if I may .I have a theory .

    Several years ago (11 to be exact) Dragon Magazine had an article on 'High Fantasy' and 'Low Fantasy' .Star Wars movies, Conan the Barbarian, The Lord of the Rings and the myths of Heracles, Perseus, Oision and Gligamesh are High Fantasy .High Fantasy deals with great epic conflicts, Good vs. Evil, Chaos vs. Order .There is little or no 'grey area' .It doesn't matter if fantastic thing's happen because it is more about symbolism: That the Ewoks could never have won on Endor doesn't matter - it's symbolic of man vs. nature .High Fantasy doesn't concern itself with thing's like economics (where DID Smaug get his treasure from ?), or sweat .

    Low Fantasy is a world away .The 'Tales of...' Star Wars Novels, The Illiad (to many peoples suprise the Illiad is actually Low Fantasy), The Wizard of Earthsea, Dragonlance, The Canterbury Tales and Dungeons & Dragons (the game) are all Low Fantasy .Low Fantasy is more about the 'grey area', about the thief who at the end of the book DOESN'T marry the Princess, about merchants and soldiers .Magic and fantastic technology may still exist in the Low Fantasy world but they are a lot less mysterious .There are no universe-cracking powers !Low Fantasy heroes may very good but they won't be the faultless paladins of High Fantasy .In Low Fantasy the gold comes from taxes collected somewhere, Dragons are a species not a unique monster .It can be said that Low Fantasy is alot duller, but if you more closely it isn't, characters feel pain and anger and love .They may not tear out their hair or blow up planets but they DO feel it .That's it's strenght: the warlord is a honourable man who feels he has no choice but to follow his goals to the end, the thief may feel he is getting his revenge for all the poor people of the world .

    Which kind are you ?It determines how you feel about Star Wars really wether you find Lucas God or you think Zahn is the Man .I'm a Low Fantasy person myself .Yours
  2. set271 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 11, 2000
    star 4
    *knock knock* (pokes head in door)

    Hi everyone!

    Whew! Just read the whole thread. You guys are MY PEOPLE! :) Thanks so much for the recommendation and invite, Ariel!

    I've been enjoying everyone's comments very much. It has been downright eerie reading Boushh2187's comments, in particular, because they express many of my feelings and opinions right down the line.

    Alas, I don't know if I'll be very popular here, since I do like *some* of the EU very much (shrinks back). Since I'm new to the Movies board and figure you might want to know where I'm coming from, perhaps you won't mind if I take a moment to digress and give my opinion of the dreaded EU...

    One reason I enjoy the books is because the dark days of the mid-late 80's are still fresh in my mind; in those days, all there was for SW reading were those Lucasfilm Fan Club magazines that came twice a year, and then they would have "Willow" or "Howard The Duck" on the cover, and there'd be some tiny article about ROTJ being released on VHS, and that was it! Such a sad time. :)

    Anyway, my point is that I'd rather have lots of material available than none at all. Also, I'm not opposed to experimentation with these characters. Sometimes authors get it right, sometimes they don't, but I'll check out anything with H/L! I have a very selective memory in regards to the EU -- the stuff I don't like has no place in my personal SW canon. I know that doesn't work for some people, but for some reason it works beautifully for me!

    I love ANH and ESB, but ROTJ left me feeling kind of blah, so in *some* scenes in *some* books, I feel like I'm getting the character stuff I thought was missing from the movie. It doesn't happen often, but when it does, it's a lot of fun for me.

    My favorite authors are Crispin and Tyers, least favorite is KJA. I have no interest in books about X-Wings or that guy Corran What's-His-Name. I don't like it when Han and Leia are poorly written or reduced to cameos. But when Han's still in his teens and sees a canned holo of Leia and her father, or when she's cataloging the features she's loved half her life and wondering if he's broken his nose again, I'm a happy gal.

    ANYWAY, if you're still reading this and are angry that I've drudged up the EU topic again, I sincerely apologize and hope you don't hate me. I'll try to stick to your established chronological discussion of the movies and not get sidetracked.

    Uuh, where are we? H/L walking away, leaving Luke to check on Artoo? Great scene. I've no additional insight to offer. :)

    Best regards,

    Terri (aka set271)

    p.s. Boushh2187, let's see your video!! I've often thought of making a similar video but have never done it.

    p.p.s Ariel, are you still distributing your fanfic via PM? I'd LOVE to read it!

    p.p.p.s. Here's hoping for a truly exhaustive Original Trilogy DVD with every last behind-the-scenes photo, and BRING ON cast commentary, cut scenes and alternate takes!

  3. set271 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 11, 2000
    star 4
    Obviously, I missed the last message before I posted! Sorry. Without thinking about it too much, I'll say... Low Fantasy. But I might change my mind. :)

    Terri
  4. jewlmc Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 1999
    star 4
    Welcome.

    I have no idea what you mean by low fantasy and high fantasy. Fantasy is fantasy to me.
    So i don't know ;-)

    I don't mean to be a hard@$$ but PLEASE NO EU!!!! Seriously it will just save alot of useless debate. Discuss what you like of them in the *films* just to save argument.
  5. RNolan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2000
    star 3
    Well look at it this way :

    High Fantasy ~ Magic, Elves with some realism thrown in .

    Low Fantasy ~ Realism with some Elves thrown in .

    Most Sci-fi is Low Fantasy .

    Useless for whom anyway ?

    I don't really understand your hatred of the Eu...or perhaps I do, but disagree with it so utterly that I may as well not understand it, but I will try and restrict myself to the films .Yours


  6. ariel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Yikes! This thread is losing its vigorousness already...we gotta post more!

    Anyways, jewlmc and I are trying (emphasize on trying) to start a website on Han and Leia with no EU crap mixed in, feel free to give us suggestions on what you want in the site. Or on helping us set up the site since we're both lost right now. So far we have fanfic and pics, what else do you guys want to see on the site?

    Yes, do not discuss the EU here. It makes me ill to see what they did to IMO the most romantic couple in cinematic history. I will remain in ignorant bliss of the EU.
  7. boushh2187 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 4
    Set271: I agree with just about everything you said! :) So you need not cringe away from me since I like some of the EU also. PM me if you want to talk about it more.
    About the video... I don't even know how I would get it online. :) I'll ask a friend about it this weekend... He might have a capture card I can use because I don't have one... And it's still not done, so maybe I should finish it first... Oh decisions, decisions....

    Rnolan: I think I like both High and Low fantasy as you describe it in your post. It seems that the films are High Fantasy and the novels are Low Fantasy... That's how it appears to me... and for what it's worth I think both work in their own way. So the Illiad is Low Fantasy, huh? Go figure... how about The Odyssey? :)

    To all: So are we going to continue on to Empire's scenes, or no? Are we still speculating on what happens in between the movies? I think I got a little lost along the way. :)
  8. Ken_Benobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2000
    star 2
    RE: Han + Leia website - i have lots of Star Wars images on my home PC, so i'll send them on to wherever u want them.

    RE: High/Low Fantasy - i never thought of the Illiad to be "Low Fantasy" - its one of the classics (no pun intended) - an epic tale of love, loss, revenge etc.

    What about the Odyssey? is that considered High or Low Fantasy?
  9. Yanksfan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2000
    star 5
    Welcome set271!

    Not to be completely dense, but I don't understand why the SW movies are high fantasty and the books are low fantasy...

    Hmmm and about the EU...it's like a love/hate thing with me. I hate the way they squander Han and Leia's potential, but at the same time I must like the EU atleast a little bit since I have read every single book that Han and Leia are in.

    But oops! didn't mean to bring that up again. Are we gonna speculate on the end of ANH, or should we move on?
  10. ariel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    I think we are speculating what happened between ANH and ESB right now....

    When do you think they did start developing emotional feelings for each other? Obviously they were physically attracted to each other from the start, but when do you think they started to feel for each other?

    Ken Benobi - Thanks so much! I will be forever indebted to you. Umm..how exactly does one START a website (see this shows how computer illiterate I am). How do you sign up for web space at stuff? And how do you get stuff on the website once you start one?

    The Odyssey is high fantasy - cyclops, monsters, gods and godesses...IMO anyways.

    PS - PLEASE NO MORE EU!!!
  11. RNolan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2000
    star 3
    The Illiad is low fantasy .The characters all have edges to them, there are no clearly 'good' or 'bad' characters (Hector and Achillies are both heroes but even they have flaws), most people have very human emotions (Priam's weeping for Hector is nicely understated by the standards of myth) and even though the plot is 'epic' it is a rather petty affair .Achillies defeat of Hector is very ambiguous and his actions afterwords verge on sadism - but very understandably so .There are no great loves comparing with say Leia or Han .The closest are Hector and Andromace (sp.?) who are simply a husband and wife very much in love .The Greeks are more interested in beating the Trojians because they don't want to feel their struggle was in vain rather than their feelings for Helen .The Gods appear but only because that is mandatory for Ancient Greek literature and they are very human deities .The battles are very rooted in the here and now, and are brutally realistic (gods aside) .People sweat in the Illiad .By our standards it may be seen as High Fantasy but not by the standards of the day .

    The Oddessey is a mixture of High and Low Fantasy .The fantastic encounters actually occupy less than 1/4 of the work and ALL are told by Oddseyeus personally rather than narrated like the rest .Oddsseyeus we know is a great liar and so his word is always a little doubtful - Homer clearly wasn't too fond of writing about fantastic creatures and events .His homecoming IS epic but it is also a rather dark one .

    Yours
  12. ariel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Getting back on topic and away from all the off topic posts....

    bouschh - what does your video have in it? I'm thinking of making a video that just as all the Han/Leia scenes so I won't have to rewind/fastforward constantly. =)

    All - so what are your guys opinion's about what happened between ANH and ESB? When do you think they started to fall for each other? Any one here believe it was a "love at first sight" kind of love, like it was with Padme and Anakin?
  13. MissPadme Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    I think they irritate one another at first, but I think they are also curious about each other and there's a grudging mutual respect. Perhaps you can even argue that Han may already harbor a phyiscal attraction toward Leia, but I think it's out of "hey, it would be kinda cool to knock boots with a princess" rather than true love. I think that grows over time--it's already there by the beginning of TESB.

    Padme and Anakin's relationship has a whole different flavor to it. "Are you an angel?" (and note that Padme seems flattered and charmed by Anakin's comment) as opposed to "Perhaps you'd like it back in your cell, Your Highness." That was love at first sight; the pure, innocent love of two children that will catch fire once they meet again as hormonally-charged adults. But I'm getting ahead of myself...:)
  14. Yanksfan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2000
    star 5
    Yeah, I agree. I think it was lust at first sight, but the love came later.
  15. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Ok, I have a ?

    When Leia and Han are on Bespin talking and it goes like this:

    Leia: I don't TRUST Lando...
    Han: I don't trust him either... he is my friend

    Ok, I wanna know is Han saying 'I don't trust him, but he IS my friend' or 'I don't trust him BECAUSE he's MY friend'... because if it's the later he's kinna making fun of himself.. anyway, I just thought I'd comment on that.. it bugs me :)
  16. Yanksfan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2000
    star 5
    I thought it was BECAUSE he was Han's friend. Let's face it, in his smuggling days I bet Han hung out with some pretty shady characters.
  17. jewlmc Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 1999
    star 4
    He says

    "I don't trust him either, but he IS my friend."

    And about the "Love at first sight" thing.. well I think there are different types, and Han and Leia have one. Kind of like a Love/hate at first sight.

    Like Scarlett and Rhett(though not exactly) I mean one could say that they loved each other from first sight. Any GWTW fans remember that scene on the staircase and in the Library at Twelve oaks. And of course They CERTAINLY were not friendly to each other at the beggining. But the feeling of being suddenly struck by a soulmate was there.

    As far as Anakin and Padme. I... I just have a hard time with seeing Love (romantic "love at first site stuff anyways) between a 9 year old and a 14 year old. A connection but that is not the same thing.
  18. ariel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Padme/Anakin is completely different from Han and Leia....I think their's will be more of a sweet, romantic kind of love. Han and Leia's is explosive, passionate. Not that either love each other any less - just two different types. And, yeah definitely not any kind of love at first sight when they met - although if Lucas had known that they would get together, he probably would have made it different. Lust? Yeah, you could tell the way they looked at each other they wanted each other bad.

    Also, I agree with jewlmc it isn't really romantic seeing a 9 year old boy have a crush on a 14 year old girl. Although I think it WOULD be really cute if there was a fic about Han meeting Leia when she was about 10 and he was 20 and she had a crush on him (not romantic, but cute...)
  19. boushh2187 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 4
    RNolan: Interesting thoughts on Homer's works. :)

    ariel: The video is a music video I guess that just has Han and Leia moments. It's done to Leann Rhimes "My Baby". I thought the lyrics to that song would be really amusing to put Han and Leia stuff to... I could post the lyrics if anyone is interested.

    Love at first sight: Han and Leia had probably more of a physical thing going and were definitely curious... I think they found each other infuriating, but perhaps that had something to do with getting two very strong willed people together who naturally will butt heads, and at the same time find each other attractive. I think they were very much like Rhett and Scarlett. :) And I think it was intentional. Compare Gone With The Wind's poster to ESB's Style A poster. Totally Rhett and Scarlett.

    As for Anakin and Padme/Amidala or whatever she's going to call herself... ;) I think Anakin had a bit of a prophetic thing going. Like he knew he was destined to be with her. And in a little boy it's cute that he has a crush on her, but I also thought it was a magacal moment when they first meet. Maybe they both didn't know it yet but perhaps it was love at first sight... :)
  20. Yanksfan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2000
    star 5
    I just read Gone with the Wind this summer and did you guys also notice that a lot of Rhett and Scarlett dialogue is almost identical to Han and Leia dialogue? Like that whole "there are not enough scoundrels in your life"..Rhett and Scarlett have almost the exact conversation. And Rhett and Han are both smugglers, and Scarlett and Leia are bothe higher class...interesting don't you think? And I think, if I am remembering crrectly, that Scarlett even utters the phrase-I'd just soon kiss a pig!

    I just remember some parts like that jumping out at me when I read the book. Like "Hmmm...this sounds familar..." :)
  21. boushh2187 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 4
    You are totally right Yanksfan! :)
    I think Scarlett says something to him like
    "Get your hands off me you skunk!" Put a little Star Wars spin on that and it could be Leia saying it. :)
  22. ariel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    If you look at the original ESB poster, it's exactly like Gone With the Wind - Han's carrying Leia - too bad they changed it, but the new one still looks like it. Although Scarlett and Rhett's love story is pretty different from Han and Leia's. I think Ashley is kind of like Luke, but Leia never had romantic feelings for Luke. And their love story ends happily (we hope so anyways!)
  23. Ken_Benobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2000
    star 2
    Ariel

    Errr - where do i start re: web design. is this thread really the best place to go into it? i don't want to spiral away from the subject(s) in hand.

    Should i post details/answers to yer questions someplace else?
  24. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Woah, we best consult GL abuot these simularities... I doubt they are totally coincidental... and if they are, that's TOO weird! And the Ashley thing, he's Scarlett's cousin, so it's almost like Luke being her brother.... kinna....
  25. boushh2187 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 4
    I think it was intentional, according to Skywalking: The Life and Films of George Lucas, that is. He was trying to recreate the dynamic in GWTW between those three characters...
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