Lit Han and Leia in the EU - A Discussion Thread (Life Debt spoilers must be tagged)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by unicorn, Feb 10, 2016.

  1. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    Presumably Crispin had only watched the movie - and not read the novel.
    I searched using "Bria" + "accrispin" and couldn't find anything like that. Maybe, as she said, someone else was troll-posting pretending to be her, to drum up dislike for her?

    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...olo-trilogy-and.11147179/page-4#post-11214090
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Jul 15, 2017
  2. DARTH_MU Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2005
    star 4
    :(

    I just searched AC Crispin

    Why did you guys make me do that?

    Now I'm all depressed.

    Edit: The only thing I see that can dig me out of this melancholy is to

    ship Han/Bria.

    Ship name suggestion now appreciated
    Last edited by DARTH_MU, Jul 15, 2017
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  3. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8


    I've been re-reading the novel - and I couldn't find anything like that in the scenes immediately after Lando frees Leia & Chewie. What was the line?
  4. unicorn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2001
    star 4
    It'd be really weird for her not to read the novel that features the main character of her trilogy and starts 30 seconds after her novel ends.

    I don't have time to go digging in my old email archives from 1999, but she used to post quite frequently on RASSM where I remember her getting into a lot of shipping wars, and I don't remember hearing anything that that wasn't her. It's possible she changed her mind later on in life, but when she wrote the HST she definitely was of the mind that Bria was the love of Han's life from what I remember (it was quite a long time ago, but I distinctly remember those posts).
    Last edited by unicorn, Jul 16, 2017
  5. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    I figured it was a case of "watch the movie" rather than "read the novelization". Presumably the "Jabba offers Han his tail as a seat" scene was conceived after she watched the ANH Special Edition.

    Regarding the upcoming Han Solo movie - it'll be interesting to see what, if anything, it has in common with the EU or with Lucas's early ideas about Han's life.

    I'm guessing he will still be a former Imperial at least.
  6. unicorn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2001
    star 4
    Ha, well obviously she didn't read the ROTJ novelization which clearly says Leia is the first woman Han ever loved.

    I really don't get a "heartbroken" vibe off of Han in ANH AT ALL. Like, he smiles easily, he laughs, he ribs Luke and Chewie, he starts flirting with Leia soon after meeting her and asks Luke if they'd be good together. I just don't see it.

    I'm guessing they keep the part about Han as an orphan, raised by space gypsies, enters the Imperial Academy but then gets kicked out when he saves Chewie who swears a Life Debt. I'll be curious to see how they change the Lando story and how Han gets the Falcon.
  7. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    Some kind of wager with Lando is needed: "You lost her to me fair and square".

    Life debts get mentioned in TPM, so I doubt they'd remove Chewie's, on a "Chewie's life debt only gets mentioned in the EU" basis. Would be a bit arbitrary when life debts themselves exist in the movies.
    Presumably in context of the Crispin-verse plus the EU as a whole, Han thought he was in love with Bria - but by RotJ (or possibly TESB) has concluded it wasn't proper love:

    Last edited by Iron_lord, Jul 17, 2017
  8. unicorn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2001
    star 4
    I mean like I said before that's definitely a 180 from how she used to feel about the Han/Bria relationship but if time had mellowed her out on the whole thing, that's a good thing. It seems the impact of their relationship got retroconned quite a bit with Han never even thinking of her once in Scoundrels which takes place shortly after ANH or in any of the 5 ANH-ESB books including his POV where originally the story was that he had spent those three years grieving and heartbroken over her.

    Luke/Callista got retroconned as well, so maybe the EU just likes to downplay "first loves" to avoid shipper wars.
  9. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    I figure that Han's feelings for her had weakened significantly - her betrayal killed most of them, so while he was a bit sad about her death, he overcame it fast - hence his flirtatious behaviour during the next few days afterward (Leia, Stacy, various Marvel characters). Not grief, but distrust, being the main reason he never formed stable relationships until Leia.


    In the context of the newcanon, it'll be interesting to see what Han's early life will be like, and how much it'll contribute to his behaviour later. If Emilia Clarke's character plays a part, hopefully it'll be one that does not upset the fandom too much.
    There were quite a few romances prior to Callista in the comics - I don't think she was ever intended to be Luke's "first love".
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Jul 17, 2017
  10. DARTH_MU Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2005
    star 4
    No

    If you used the wayback machine, you can find accrispin posting here and telling people that someone (maybe a female by her guess) impersonated her and bashed H/L so that people would hate H/B.

    And Callista was supposed to be Luke's OTP until the higherups wanted Mara instead.

    Darksaber read like fanfic, so that's why back in the day I felt I could do better so I started writing fanfics.

    Anyway, reading the books I felt like KJA was like OK, Callista is no longer going to be Luke's OTP, so I have to write her to be suck. Then Barbara Hambly returned and said, OK, you want to mess around? I'll ruin your Daala.

    Edit: And this bashing of the author who you know is never going to be here to defend herself! What gives?
    Last edited by DARTH_MU, Jul 17, 2017
  11. unicorn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2001
    star 4
    I mean even if Emilia is Han's love interest, by the canon he appears to be well over it by ANH with a girl in every port and not grieving over a lost love. The turnaround in the old canon from the love of his life tragically dying to meeting Leia the next DAY was way too fast and really made Leia seem like a rebound, especially given the strong similarities between her and Bria. I also really, really hope Emilia Clarke's character isn't involved in the Rebellion in any way because then she'll just come off like a Leia clone.

    Re: Callista, yeah I just thought it was funny how they retconned it from "Luke loved Callista (even though it ended)" to "Luke's feelings for her weren't that strong" as per Luke's thoughts in Survivor's Quest. Kind of like how James Luceno retconned Han being too heartbroken over Bria to develop feelings for Leia to "Han fell in love with Leia the moment he met her" in Millennium Falcon. That's kind of inevitable though when you do the round robin author story.
    Last edited by unicorn, Jul 17, 2017
  12. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8

    It did seem like many of the people in Han's early life had a grudge against some authoritarian regime, even before Bria was introduced - Xaverri, Jessa (Corporate Sector Authority rather than Empire), and so on.


    If I had to guess, I'd speculate that she might be a fellow smuggler - sort of a newcanon Salla Zend.

    You never know - maybe Thandie Newton will be the Fellow Protagonist, and Emilia Clarke will be one of the antagonists - perhaps an Imperial officer?
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Jul 17, 2017
  13. Jedi Jessy Jedi Grand Master

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    Feb 28, 2016
    star 5
  14. Jedi Jessy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2016
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    "Ren is an expert pilot -- thanks to skills passed down from his father -- which he puts to use in exploiting his ship's speed and ferocity."

    It mean Han teached him or it's just about genetic thing?
  15. MagnarTheGreat Jedi Master

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    Jul 21, 2016
    star 4
    .
  16. DARTH_MU Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2005
    star 4
    Han taught him apparently.

    Lamarcke's theory has been disproved in the real world.

    unless SW followed Lamarcke's theory?
  17. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    The implication in the above Bloodline quote is that Han for some reason couldn't teach him - so he teaches other young pilots instead.

    Some things about piloting are taught, but sometimes "natural talent" might give certain people a head start.

    ANH novel:

    “I understand you’re quite a good pilot yourself. Piloting and navigation aren’t hereditary, but a number of the things that can combine to make a good small-ship pilot are. Those you may have inherited. Still, even a duck has to be taught to swim.”
    “What’s a duck?” Luke asked curiously.
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  18. unicorn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2001
    star 4
    Has anyone asked Pablo?

    The impression I got from Bloodline was that Han didn't get to teach Ben because Ben didn't want to learn. But if he did learn at some point, maybe it means Ben was sent away to Luke before he was old enough for Han to teach him and someone else taught him?
  19. unicorn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2001
    star 4
    From tumblr:

    Did you ever notice how Han and Leia collect children?
    They were (as best we know) both orphans – although with completely different experiences of that. And maybe it’s that piece of backstory or maybe it’s just the amount of love they have between them, but in both Legends and new canon, the two of them become de facto parents to just about every lost or otherwise needy child they encounter.
    In Legends, there’s Tahiri, Tenel Ka, Allana (although technically she’s family), Lusa… and this is off the top of my head, mind you.

    And in new canon, between the two of them they’ve taken on Greer, Joph, Finn & Rey as well as (to a degree) Poe and Snap. I have a feeing we’re about to see Rose and Paige added to this list.

    I really love how one of the threads that runs through Han and Leia in both iterations of their post-ROTJ selves is that they offer love, support, and guidance to ‘kids’ who need it. Because they’re a stable, committed couple who both know what instability feels like and want to spare as many people as possible that feeling.
  20. Vialco Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4

    I think a key difference between Legends and Canon is that in Legends Han and Leia's relationship survived the deaths of both their sons while in Canon they fell apart after their only child fell to the Dark Side. A sharp contrast to Han and Leia's unshakeable unity in the face of Darth Caedus's mad depredations.
  21. Stymi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2002
    star 4
    I'd be interested in an example of this "fan bro-ing."

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  22. Stymi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2002
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    It's interesting. I was a young kid during the OT, and the big three seemed larger than life.

    Now, I see those ages, and I think..."kids"

    These are kids running around taking actions and making decisions that shape an entire galaxy. It's comical...in a good pulp fiction-y way.

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  23. Claire1976 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2013
    star 4
    @Stymi A fan bro is only interested in a character being as "cool" as possible. JJ is a Fan bro because in TFA he was only interested in "cool" Han, the smuggler Han from ANH, so regardless of what was best for the story or indeed the character of Han, JJ decided to revert him back to how he was in ANH because a happily married Han with a respectable job in the New Republic would be so NOT cool for the fan bros.
  24. PCCViking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2014
    star 9
    Well, their marriage almost completely fell apart when Chewbacca died. Han initially blamed Anakin and isolated himself from not only Leia, but his children, Luke, and the others. As devastating as Anakin's death was and Jacen's transformation to the Sith, they learned to keep together even in the face of those tumultuous events.
  25. DARTH_MU Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2005
    star 4
    The TFA is only one movie, and Han died in it. So we'll never know the difference
    What I mean to say is that in the Legend EU, sure, they take on Orphans. For that one book. Then in the next book they just hug their own kids (Jacen, Jaina, and Anakin) They "forget" those orphans.
    In the Legend EU, they never cared for Tahiri, or Lusa. TK was family in law, and really, they wouldn't have cared if something happened to her. Allana? She's really family, so *hugs*.

    edit: I guess it really depends on what foundation Han and Leia's relationship was built on. It sounds like in Disney canon Leia goes full on Diplomat/career politician and Han just wasn't by her side physically. In the Legend EU, even though Leia was a diplomat, she wasn't a career politician and Han was always by her side, fighting off threats to Leia (Imperials, Yevethas, all kinds of adventures where they saved each other).
    Last edited by DARTH_MU, Jul 21, 2017