Lit Han and Leia in the EU - A Discussion Thread (Life Debt spoilers must be tagged)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by unicorn, Feb 10, 2016.

  1. Jedi Jessy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2016
    star 5
    Show Spoiler
    I agree with you but I don't find any confirmation it's Billy Dee. Weird, Lando isn't in the IMDb list

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5710996/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast :confused:
    Last edited by Jedi Jessy, Nov 14, 2017
  2. unicorn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2001
    star 4

    Whoa, Leia's voice sounds just like a young Carrie! How did they do that?

    Show Spoiler

    Eeee, I found the call!


    Skip to 12:57. So cute but of course wish it could be longer :(
    Last edited by unicorn, Nov 14, 2017
  3. Claire1976 Jedi Master

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    Oct 20, 2013
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    Wow, Leia’s voice is bang on!


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  4. unicorn Jedi Grand Master

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    Can we get an animated series during the OT or a post ROTJ series with the Big Three with this voice actress? Please???
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  5. Claire1976 Jedi Master

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    Oct 20, 2013
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    I’d definitely be up for that @unicorn. This is the best Leia voice actress I’ve heard.


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  6. unicorn Jedi Grand Master

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  7. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

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    Disney streaming service:

    Make that happen.
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  8. Jedi Jessy Jedi Grand Master

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    Feb 28, 2016
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    "Both of these main characters know what it’s like to feel abandoned.

    Driver says Kylo began turning against his mother and father, Leia Organa and Han Solo, because he felt they cared more about the Rebellion and rebuilding after the fall of the Empire than they cared about him. That created a bitterness that ultimately consumed him.

    “I think the idea of someone whose parents are very much devoted to the cause, that’s something a lot of people could relate to, whether it be religion or politics or a business,” Driver says. “Not identifying with [that cause] yourself, I think can give someone a complex.”

    Selfish? Sure, a little. Maybe more than a little. But it’s also understandable, even in our world. Ironically, Kylo Ren just rebelled against an actual Rebellion."

    :rolleyes:
  9. La Calavera Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2015
    star 4
    ^ Are they seriously going with that? Mommy and daddy didn't make everything about him? That has to be the least sympathetic motivation to become a mass murderer and kill your father.

    Poor poor privileged manchild, let me shed a crocodile tear for him.
  10. Claire1976 Jedi Master

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    Oct 20, 2013
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    Pathetic isn't it?


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  11. dragonchic Jedi Knight

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    Nov 9, 2015
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    Especially when contrasted against heroes who grew up in MUCH worse conditions and somehow managed to remain good people. Even if you want to blame Snoke, Finn was subject to FO "programming" since he was a toddler and still knows right from wrong.
    Last edited by dragonchic, Nov 19, 2017
  12. Jedi Jessy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2016
    star 5
    Imagine blame Han and Leia because they wanted a better galaxy to everybody. And if they act as if they cares about women, why try to show Leia working was a bad thing to her son?

    My family had financial difficulties, my parents worked too much and I spent more time with my grandparents during childhood but I never blamed them for anything.
  13. unicorn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2001
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    Ugh, that's pathetic. But not really anything new, they've been pushing that angle since TFA. Though Driver doesn't really seem to know the backstory, since Han wasn't working for the New Republic after he was born.

    Him thinking Rey will identify with him for both being "abandoned" is pathetic, when Rey was literally abandoned and had to fend for every scrap of food to eat, while Kylo was privileged and pampered and never had to worry where his next meal was coming from. (If they actually do have Rey identify with him over this, well ugh..that'd make me lose respect for her.)

    Going to quote a Tumblr post so as not to repeat myself:

    https://ewokkey.tumblr.com/post/167670052916/roscticos-rennerkyle-rennerkyle-theyre

    Also not even giving a ---- about Kyle, but like I’ve hated this rhetoric that’s all about Leia not caring about her son. Leia grew up with two loving parents who were ripped from her at an early age. And then she found out that her biological father was one of the worst people in the galaxy, but she also found a loving twin brother.

    What I’m saying is, if there’s any people in the galaxy who would understand the importance of family and sticking together, Leia would be one of them. Just because Leia believes so strongly in the Alliance, doesn’t mean that she would ever just forget about or neglecy her son. Leia would look at him and yeah sure maybe see the fear of Vader, but she’d also see Bail and Breha, and the fact that her parents aren’t here to see their grandchild, that she never got to tell them about the little things, about Han, about Luke. Leia doesn’t have to be a bad mother just because she’s a badass general.


    Especially after PLOA, which takes care to point out that Bail and Breha always put family first despite both of them having incredibly busy careers and Bail living off planet half the time and Leia thinking about how close she was to her parents, it’d make no sense that she wouldn’t want the same for her son. Leia’s whole character arc in ROTJ is putting Han above the Rebellion by leaving it during a dire time to rescue the love of her life, it’s like JJ et al just want to believe that Leia remained the same 100% duty driven princess she was in ANH and never changed, just as Han remained the same selfish smuggler he was at the beginning of ANH and never evolved from that.

    Don’t even get me started on the anti feminist BS that Leia had a career, therefore she was a terrible mother. Besides, in the new canon Han doesn’t even really get involved with the New Republic and starts setting up a shipping business after Ben is born.
  14. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    Hmm, as a way for an actor to do their job, it works.

    As actual, in-universe account for Kylo's psychopathy, it is exceedingly weak.
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  15. unicorn Jedi Grand Master

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    Jan 19, 2001
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    I remember reading somewhere that Adam is/was estranged from his RL parents so he's pulling on that, which fine you do what you have to to get into character. But it also sounds like JJ and Rian are telling him the backstory.

    But why give him the incorrect backstory? Han wasn't involved in setting up the New Republic after he was born, he ran a shipping company and then became a professional racer.
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  16. unicorn Jedi Grand Master

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    Jan 19, 2001
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    EDIT: Sorry double post
    Last edited by unicorn, Nov 19, 2017
  17. Ginger Jedi Grand Master

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    Jan 27, 2001
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    I can't relate to a privileged man who doesn't believe in, or understand his parent's noble causes.
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  18. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 6
    I don't have the slightest problem with it, I just don't buy it as a reason to turn to the dark side.


    I'm not one to have any faith in the ST...but there's just no way they could be unaware of this contrast. There's no way they could create a character who was literally abandoned in the desert as a small child, and show us that scene, and have a whiny, privileged villain sulk about his disappointing dad, without that being intentional.

    But I wouldn't put it past JJ, because I don't think he really understands Star Wars or anything he was doing in TFA, I think he's shown a surface level of awareness at most in every project of his I've seen.
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  19. Coherent Axe Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 2016
    star 1
    At least in terms of that Entertainment Weekly article, isn't all of that just coming from Driver's approach to the character? And, as has been pointed out, if his parents were estranged, that's an obvious thing for him to use to get into character. Plenty of actors make up their own backstory to get into their characters (Hamill's said he did the same for Luke's missing years) but that doesn't mean it's canon -- it's not even supposed to be canon. It doesn't seem to be reflected in the official material we've had so far, does it?
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  20. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 6
    Kylo's petty bitterness toward Han is in the movie, regardless of the precise reasoning for it.

    Again, it's just too obvious to be unintentional. There's no way they can have Kylo point out that Rey never had a father, and then immediately mention that his own father merely disappointed him, without realizing the contrast and how Kylo comes off in comparison because of it.

    The idea of abandonment is also backed up by this line from Leia:

    She's basically blaming herself for abandoning him.

    It seems like the story they're going with to me.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Nov 20, 2017
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  21. unicorn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2001
    star 4

    The official material and what Pablo Hidalgo has said don't really seem to support Han and Leia being bad or neglectful parents. Very little has been written about Ben's childhood, but Pablo Hidalgo has outright said several times that Han and Leia were not bad parents and not to blame for Ben going Dark, and that how Kylo feels is his own POV on the matter but not necessarily the correct one.

    Also the description of Han in the Visual Dictionary is "family man", which doesn't really fit absent father and husband. Plus, Adam said Han was too busy setting up the New Republic after the war, but as far as all the official information says Han had no role in the New Republic after Ben was born.

    I mean I do believe that the story we'll get is that Kylo believes that his parents were neglectful and that's why he turned to the Dark Side (which is even lamer than Anakin's reason in ROTS), but the official material doesn't seem to back up that they actually were neglectful.

    EDIT: Also, the new book out PLOA seems to very much go against the idea that Leia puts duty above all else, with her growing up in a loving household where she's extremely close to her parents instead of being raised by nanny or droids. It doesn't really flow from that that she'd then go on to emotionally neglect her own son.
    Last edited by unicorn, Nov 20, 2017
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  22. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms

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    All I know is that if the writers want me to have even a modicum of sympathy for Kylo, taking the “he was neglected or abandoned by parents who cared more about careers than him” will have the exact opposite effect.

    Even “He felt that way despite it not being true” isn’t really working for me unless he comes to realize that he was wrong about that.
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  23. unicorn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2001
    star 4
    I guess we've taken a time machine back to the 1950s, where working mothers are to blame for everything :rolleyes:
  24. Jedi Jessy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2016
    star 5
    Rey: why did you fell to the dark side?

    Kylo: my mom, who was victim of torture and saw her planet be destroyed at 19, worked too much to keep the galaxy safe. That's why I hate her, she is selfish.

    Rey:
    [IMG]
  25. Jedi Ben Chosen One

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  26. unicorn Jedi Grand Master

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    Jan 19, 2001
    star 4
    http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017...ay-carrie-fisher-you-could-never-replace-her/

    Still, she conceded that if asked she might play Leia again – because in the end, it was too big an honour to pass up.

    “I would be lying if I said no,” she admitted. “It would be great.

    “Really scary at the same time because she’s such an iconic character and I really, really respect and admire Carrie Fisher and who she was. There would be two very big shoes to fill, you could never replace her.”


    Be interesting if Disney's eventual plan is to make movies around the time of the OT with Aiden as Han and Ingvild as Leia....
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