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Lit Han and Leia in the EU - A Discussion Thread (Life Debt spoilers must be tagged)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by unicorn, Feb 10, 2016.

  1. unicorn

    unicorn Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2001
    Hopefully, Rian didn’t confer with Jason Fry on the novelization since Rian said Kylo throwing it in Rey’s face that her parents discarded her like garbage is him actually saying that they have that in common (both of their parents discarded them like garbage).

    I’m sure there are Reylo shoppers who exist who don’t blame Han/Leia, I probably just have a skewed view because every time I see a post calling Han/Leia abusive/neglectful parents who caused Ben to go to the Dark Side it’s always from a Reylo fan. So like not all As are Bs but all Bs are As for those who remember logic puzzles :p

    I’m glad the movie itself doesn’t blame Han/Leia. I was worried when Adam explicitely said the reason his character turned to the Dark Side was because Han and Leia had busy careers.

    I don’t see why Leia wouldn’t consider Padme her mother, in Bloodline she talks about how she did research on her and is proud of her accomplishments. The only part I find weird about that comic scene is her still thinking she’ll have grandkids after Ben’s already turned to Kylo. Even if she thinks Kylo will turn back eventually, she’s naively optimistic if she thinks it can involve him getting married and having kids like a normal person.
     
  2. Trip

    Trip Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2003
    I really don't, which is why coming across that page was so jarring to me. I had no idea they were building up this Padmé connection thing.

    yeah all this, to me, is terrible and like, totally opposite to the Leia I know. I guess it was inevitable since it was a thread that popped up in fanfic a lot after the prequels and especially Revenge of the Sith and I hated it then, was glad it never wormed its way into official works, and I'm kind of disappointed to see it has now.

    Like for me the thing is, and why this bothers me so much, is that Leia had a mother. And a father. She didn't grow up like Luke, raised by an aunt and uncle and with this great big question mark in her past, these mysterious figures to idealize and project all her hopes and dreams on. Instead she grew up with a mother, and a father, and while she knew they were adopted it wasn't a thing she was given reason to wonder or dream about. Why pine for these figures who never existed for you, when you have real, flesh and blood parents who love you right there? And indeed the one time it comes up in the films she's at best deeply ambivalent about it: when Luke asks her if she remembers her mother-- her real mother, his voice thick with emotion-- she seems kind of taken aback, has to think about it: I barely remember her, she was... kind and sad, I guess...? And then Luke is like, I have no memory of my mother, and eventually segues into oh yeah you're my sister and granted she's in shock probably (and Carrie Fisher was maybe not giving the scene her all) but the point is what I get from that scene is that Leia doesn't care.

    And then the legendary EU built on this, with Luke being the one with all the questions about his past, but Leia being resolutely like, don't care, my father was Bail Organa, and granted she doesn't think about Breha much because this was pre-RotS and everyone seemed to have assumed Breha died when she was young (I'd read it that she and Bail were estranged tbh, it's an arranged marriage, it happens, and Leia was a daddy's girl and feels so guilty about her distance from Breha that she's kind of blocked thinking about her out) but the point is she never wonders about her birth mother at all, it's Luke who did, and Leia just isn't the type of person to care about that sort of thing, she resolutely doesn't live in the past. There's a great bit in the Black Fleet Crisis when Luke comes to her with new news about their mother and Leia's pissed about it: she tells him to **** off, and accuses him of putting too much stock into blood relations, and characterizes the various charlatans pretending to be her mother she's come across as "in love with the idea that they married the monster and gave birth to the heroes of the Rebellion." That's who her birth mother is, to her: the woman who married a monster. And the thing is I'm not convinced knowing the true story of her parents would really convince her otherwise: would Leia want to honor the memory of a woman who enabled Anakin's fall at every turn, the woman who sat there and dried his tears when he confessed to mass murder, the woman who was prepared to throw away everything she believed in if only her child-murdering husband would choose her over ruling his new empire? Because I don't really think she would, tbh.

    (Also I hate to go there but I think it's a bit... maybe not sexist, exactly, but a bit... like, the fact that all the focus seems to be on Leia and Padmé rather than Luke and Padmé, when Luke is the one who would actually care about and pines for memory of his mother seems based more in the fact that Leia's her daughter and they both wore their hair funny this one time than anything else.)
     
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  3. grungebunny

    grungebunny Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    I think the author of the Leia books wants to include Padme as presence in Leia's life to strengthen the role of women throughout the saga. She also goes into greater detail with Breha. There is no harm in that.

    I think you are projecting your opinions on to the character. You don't like Padme and so don't think Leia should. So far what we have is very realistic. Previously, she didn't feel any need to know her biological parents because as you say, she had great parents present. Then her parents are killed, she finds out she has a brother and her father is Darth Vader. Curiosity after that is understandable.Then she goes and finds out she was in the same line of work as her, she worked for the benefit of people, she was friends with Bail and Mon Mothma. Her previously feelings, visions, get put into context. Also, you would assume it would be a bonding experience with her new found brother. Its an adoption experience and some people want to find their biological family, some don't. Some need the closure to figure outwhy they were given up. Some people feel unwanted. The dresses thing is not the first time she's had an emotional moment about Padme, she has one in Return of the Jedi. I never got the impression she didn't care, just that she didn't understand why Luke was asking.

    Its also interesting Leia and Luke have grandparents, an aunt and cousins to tell them about their mother. Do we really think Leia would shake them off like they don't matter when they find out their grandchildren aren't dead? We'd have to consider Leia to be rather heartless not to at least put some feeling into that.
     
  4. Endor_boy

    Endor_boy Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 24, 2013
    Do Padme's sister and parents and extended family exist (at least still alive) in new canon? I thought they were just in Legends.
     
  5. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
  6. MrDarth0

    MrDarth0 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Why wouldn't they not exist?

    They are briefly in ROTS during Padme's funeral and I also personally always considered the deleted scenes included on the prequel DVDs to be canon.
     
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  7. Outsourced

    Outsourced Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Indeed. I ususally take the Deleted Scenes as canon unless contradicted. More than often, they're cut for pacing or time, and not content.
     
  8. PCCViking

    PCCViking Force Ghost star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Would that include deleted scenes that might take place in the novelization? Because...

    In TFA novelization, Rey and Poe meet at the end, but they don't actually meet on-screen until The Last Jedi.
     
  9. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Then the film takes precedence. Better to see them meeting, honestly, which really should have happened in TFA itself.
     
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  10. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I don’t like Padme in ROTS either, but I could still see Leia commenting on her biological mother’s better aspects. That said, one of those aspects was not “gowns.” And fair point about why no author has taken on any scene with Luke reflecting on Padme.
     
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  11. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Star Wars Storms of Crait
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
  13. dragonchic

    dragonchic Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2015
    The content is cute but god I wish artists would stop tracing screencaps from the films, sometimes the expressions they choose make absolutely no sense.
     
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  14. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    They're beginning to look like some of the head-swap demotivational posters out there.
     
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  15. unicorn

    unicorn Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2001
    Ahh so many cute shippy moments between Han and Leia in the comic! The almost kiss with Han puckering up, Han being jealous and Leia teasing him that he cares and then the ending scene of the two of them flirting with each other...It’s like a Han/Leia fan’s dream come true!

    The tracing admittedly looks weird in some pics where Leia’s face doesn’t seem to match her body at all but it’s used well in the last panel which is taken from this pic (only thing is Leia looks more like Carrie than Leia?) https://www.google.com/url?q=http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/11/16/16/3A69B4FB00000578-3939254-Life_imitating_art_The_60_year_old_actress_was_only_19_when_she_-a-2_1479315223565.jpg&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNF50bM9BpqEvis1KS9bLAy8ITpLHA And hey,
    if Reylo shippers get Rey checking out Kylo shirtless, then we should get to see Leia checking out Han without a shirt :p
    .

    Forces of Destiny with Han and Leia flirting on Hoth looks super cute too!
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
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  16. unicorn

    unicorn Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2001
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  17. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Leia created The Resistance before find out about Ben, so it's possible Han helped her (he still help them during Poe Comics, shortly before TFA, giving an information Leia needed during a mission). I'm happy to see they weren't apart for so long (maybe Leia gave space to Han after the massacre and Han thought that she didn't want to see him but frequently he sent messages to her etc)
     
  18. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Forces of Destiny Leia comic showed Leia in Hoth and Han/Leia acted very friendly without any violence ^:)^

    PS: One of the writers is a woman :cool: (Elsa Charretier, who also was the penciller and she made the cover together with Sarah Stern). Elsa need to work to Star Wars ongoing comic
     
  19. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Yes, the Forces of Destiny interactions were great. The whole thing was, honestly.
     
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  20. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Yes, the art is so cute
     
  21. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2016
    And the "good boy" exchange.
     
  22. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    StarWars.com: And as a bonus, Hera, Han, and Threepio all make an appearance! How did you decide which characters to include beyond Leia herself?

    Pierrick Colinet: I really couldn’t miss the chance of writing Leia and Han together, so that was a no-brainer. Ultimately, their dynamic also helped us figure out how the tauntaun could fit in. Basically, the tauntaun is pretty similar to Han and that’s precisely why Leia is having so much trouble with it — she wants him to behave, and nothing works until, just like with Han, she has to take the tauntaun for who it is. We also needed a character to counter-balance Leia’s impatience, and Han’s cockiness, while still being strong and charismatic. Hera was perfect in that role.

    [...]
    StarWars.com: You really perfectly captured the banter between Han and Leia in just a few short pages. (“I’m talking about the tauntaun, Han.”) What were you using for inspiration? And how do you know when you have the dialogue just right for these characters?

    Pierrick Colinet: Mostly, it’s watching the movies over and over again, along with the scripts. Before finding the right words, we also had to find the right pace. Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford have a way of acting together that’s like a tango with tap dancing shoes. It’s burn after burn, in the most musical way. Once we figured out how they should sound, it was a lot easier to write the dialogue. But let’s be honest, we rewrote those lines A LOT.

    Elsa Charretier: Buying screenplays is a personal passion of mine. And they come in handy when it comes to dissecting characters’ language and dialog. Seeing and hearing a movie is one thing, but I always feel that reading the words helps a lot to get the feeling of a character. Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford’s interpretations of the characters also have to be taken into consideration, obviously, because they brought so much to the written words. Ultimately, it’s also about instinct — we play the scenes out, and see if they work.

    http://www.starwars.com/news/how-id...rincess-with-star-wars-forces-of-destiny-leia
     
  23. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    In the last Star Wars comics:
    Luke&Leia are in a diferent place while Han & Chewie are in the Falcon with a group. There's a lot of mess happening because there's no leader and Han said "don't tell the princess but I wish she was here". Chewie encourages Han to be the leader and he start to make some commands to their group, Leia watched it by a camera and she was like "he'll do fine. He'll do better than fine"
     
  24. unicorn

    unicorn Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2001
    Sorry, I've been totally neglecting this thread! Stupid RL.

    Forces of Destiny was super cute and I loved reading Han, Leia and Hera's interactions and Han and Leia bantering (without any physical violence). I'll have to take a look at the new SW comic too!

    Spoilers for TLJ:
    http://ca.ign.com/articles/2018/01/...-novelization-features-han-solo-funeral-scene Han's funeral is going to be in the TLJ novelization. I'm glad we'll finally get to read it, but why was this not considered important enough to be in the movie? One of my major disappointments of TFA and TLJ is that neither of them addressed the fact that Han and Leia were ever married. At least we'll see his loss get some recognition in the novelization, though I hope they actually let Leia mourn and not be like a "Oh, it's a great loss to the cause" or something.

    Also, let's hope there's not more crap in the novelization that Han and Leia sucked as parents or something....Jason Fry did a pretty good job with Moving Target and he's the one who wrote that Han gave Leia a kitchen in the Falcon for their wedding gift so hopefully he does their past marriage and parenting justice.
     
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  25. unicorn

    unicorn Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2001
    :rolleyes: at all the "OMG Rey is Han and Qi'ra's daughter articles popping up now". Hasn't anyone else noticed that in SW all important women are white brunettes, it doesn't mean they're related :p
     
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