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Lit Han and Leia in the EU - A Discussion Thread (Life Debt spoilers must be tagged)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by unicorn, Feb 10, 2016.

  1. unicorn

    unicorn Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2001
    [​IMG]
    LOL, poor Han. I wonder if they'll do it a bit like the old EU, where because Leia was the one with the demanding career, Han was the stay at home dad?
     
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  2. Claire1976

    Claire1976 Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 20, 2013
    Haa I love that! :)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  3. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 28, 2016
    My older cousin became a mother last year and she is exhausted too lol
     
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  4. unicorn

    unicorn Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 19, 2001
    At least this means he's home all the time. So many people believe that the arrangement in Bloodline where Han is gone half the year was how it's always been and say Han is such a deadbeat dad. This shows he's been home since Ben was born. I hope we see when the mission starts Han missing Ben and Leia, and not glad to be away from home.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  5. Supreme Leader Woke

    Supreme Leader Woke Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Dec 29, 2017
    I kind of agree, but I also feel that it would be legitimate for Han to be simultaneously relieved at regaining his old “freedom” and distraught at being cut loose from what is now his anchor in Leia and Ben. I’m not a dad (yet?), but that seeming paradox is exactly how my parents describe leaving the house, even for a few hours, after sleepless nights on baby duty. That (natural) emotional turbulence at trying to reconcile conflicting identities has the potential to reaffirm Han’s heart of gold in the reader’s eyes.
     
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  6. unicorn

    unicorn Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 19, 2001
  7. unicorn

    unicorn Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 19, 2001
    https://www.starwars.com/news/last-...on-han-solo-the-dad-and-why-lando-needs-l3-37

    StarWars.com: What do you think sets Lando and Han apart? The two of them are living on both sides of the law, but as you mention, they approach things differently. How are Han Solo and Lando Calrissian different from each other and how does that conflict sometimes?

    Daniel José Older: That’s a fascinating question. On one end, we see in this book Han having settled down with a family but not feeling settled inside. Then we see Lando, really, really wanting to settle down — he kind of wants what Han has — but they both are used to this rugged smuggler lifestyle that they’ve been living for their whole lives, so they’re both trying to find what it means to settle down but in different ways. Like I said, Han has already found it, but doesn’t know how to reconcile it with who he is, and Lando is looking for it in a more romantic way.

    And stylistically, there’s a lot of really interesting differences. The famous capes, of course, but that speaks to this whole other persona that Lando has that sets him apart from Han, who is pretty much a throw-it-on-and-go type of dude. And then you have different forms of strategy. Lando is a sweet-talker, Han is not, memorably. They are both fighters and warriors, in different ways and they both have their own forms of diplomacy. All of those are different things that came up throughout the book.

    StarWars.com: One of the themes you get to explore in the present day sections is Han being settled and now he’s a father. How does fatherhood and married life play into his character when, as you mentioned earlier, he is at a crossroads?

    Daniel José Older: He struggles with it in the way that any person would, especially since he’s used to the run-around, being able to bop from place to place freely, and suddenly being tied down and what does that mean. But also craving it, being really content, but not knowing what to do with that contentment. Even when Han was in smuggling, and after that in the Rebellion, that was a whole free running lifestyle, even if it was being on the run and difficult at times, and now they’ve won the war. It’s like that line from Hamilton, “Winning was easy, governing’s harder.” That’s what the whole New Republic is dealing with — that question of how do you keep the whole galaxy together now after a devastating galactic civil war. What does this look like? They fail in some ways and succeed in others. And that’s what Han is going through. He feels like a total failure and I think that’s what he is struggling with in this book, like nothing he is doing is working. But I think that’s what success also feels like, because you’re trying these things and some of them work and some of them don’t, but you are magnifying your own mistakes and they seem giant. Of course, we also have the shadow of what happens later, with Ben and him, looming over every decision he makes as a father. So there’s that added tension, but that was a tension I figured to let best work its own magic and just stay there in the shadows. No direct mention of any of that.

    StarWars.com: Just being a new parent is a hard enough game for Han Solo to sort out because that’s a realm he has no real experience in.

    Daniel José Older: Exactly. Exactly. And again, it’s a question of responsibility. It’s a very different challenge to take on responsibility of being a rebel leader and part of a huge movement, but there’s a whole other level to it when you’re a father and you’re responsible for one single life that matters to you on an entirely different level. And just the basic annoyances I really wanted to capture, particularly in the first scenes — just stepping on toys when you get up at four o’clock in the morning because you get a call and you’re trying not to wake up the kid and you want your coffee but the droid is making too much noise. All these really basic little things that humanize the experience of Han being a father.

    StarWars.com: Capturing that incidental comedy of being Han Solo — things just keep going wrong but there’s nothing he can do about it.

    Daniel José Older: Right. He’s fed up, but he’s also really passionate. As much as we think of him as a rogue and a smuggler, and a ne’er-do-well, he has that moment in Return of the Jedi where he really offers himself up on the plate to Leia when he thinks that Luke and Leia are going to be a thing. He’s like, “Look, I’ll get out of the way. You have this special connection to Luke that I don’t understand. As much as I love you, I’ll step aside.” That’s a big moment and I think that it speaks to his noble heart inside of this rogue and smuggler, which is why his character is so interesting.

    StarWars.com: Speaking of that scene, it also shows that he can just be completely wrong about things.

    Daniel José Older: That too. And another piece of this book is him just missing Leia. He starts out a little fed up with his domestic life and wants to bum around the stars, but as soon as he gets out there, he’s like, “Man, no one understands me like Leia.”


    This sounds promising! It sounds better than the last Aftermath book which really seemed to show Han not liking being settled down. This sounds like he's content with the domestic life but also craves adventure from time to time.

    I still sort of hate that like the author said every decision Han makes as a father will be scrutinized as somehow causing Ben to fall to the Dark Side later because of how we know it turns out, unlike in Legends. But hopefully I can enjoy this book as a standalone that shows Han going through some growing pains adjusting to domestic life but ultimately being happy with Leia and Ben and not wanting to be anywhere else.

    I think we'll see that Han feels restless as he doesn't really have a job he enjoys when we see him in Aftermath and Last Shot, but once he gets his shipping business off the ground he's a lot more satisfied with his life.

    I remember the New Rebellion doing something similar - having Han meet up with old friends and relive the good old days, but ends up getting betrayed and then at the end of the book he was like "Man, I really missed the excitement of the good old days but that was more nostalgia than anything and all I really want to do is be at home with Leia and the kids".
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  8. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 28, 2016
    That's great! And I hope we'll see Lando and Leia's friendship in this book too. I really wanted to see Lando in ST, he helping the Resistance and everything :_|
     
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  9. unicorn

    unicorn Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 19, 2001
    Just noticed this in the Han/Sana excerpt of Last Shot:

    "“—cannons,” Han finished. “Well, all right then. Glad to see everyone’s making themselves at home.” He pulled the accelerator and let the roaring engines fill him. Space awaited, that impossible vastness, as empty as his heart, where he could be perfectly free."

    So the emptiness of his heart is definitely referring to Qi'ra right? Oddly enough, Han never mentions Bria in the five books written from his POV between ANH and ESB.
     
  10. unicorn

    unicorn Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 19, 2001
    Sorry too late to edit:

    Not really spoilers for Last Shot but just in case:
    https://www.alternativenation.net/star-wars-last-shot-review/

    "Older offers insight into Han’s early years as a father and the budding disconnect between him and his son, Ben Solo, that would ultimately lead to their confrontation in The Force Awakens."

    LOL, Older just said in his interview with SW he's NOT foreshadowing anything that happens later with Ben and Han's relationship. Also, Ben is two, what kind of disconnect can they possibly have? His day consists of sleeping, eating, crying and pooping. Tired of people reading into every single interaction Han and Ben or Han and Leia have as some kind of proof of what happens later on. This is what area I miss about Legends, that we didn't know Jacen was going to turn Dark later so we didn't have to microanalyze every single thing that came out for clues of Han and Leia's parenting ability.
     
  11. unicorn

    unicorn Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 19, 2001
    spoilers for Last Shot

    Okay, this book is so, so great for Han and Leia! The core relationship is between Han and Lando (which is really well done) but there are so many parts of Han's life with Leia and his thoughts about her that are just lovely.

    Random points, I will probably write a longer review later:

    - This book confirms Han, Leia and Ben have a completely normal domestic set up with Han seemingly being the primary caregiver while Leia is busy with her Senate career. Han hasn't left the home since Ben was born, so that should alleviate any "Han was a deadbeat dad who was never around" concerns. Han and Leia have a healthy loving marriage where they talk every day, support each other and Han starts missing Leia when he's only been away from her for 2 days because their lives are so intwined with each other.

    - Ben is a totally normal 2 year old. Should shut down the fanon idea that Snoke tortured him from the womb and every day of his life. He loves Han and his Uncle Lando and he's a happy healthy toddler.

    - Han is struggling in his role of husband and father and feels like a failure on both for sure, but the book makes it clear this is Han's insecurity. Leia thinks he's doing fine and the important thing is he keeps trying even after he messes up. I feel like this is totally in character given the timeline Han and Leia had of being together a few months (on the way to Bespin), then being separated for six months, back together for a month, getting married and then having a child immediately. Of course Han is going to take some time to adjust from being a single guy free to do whatever he wants to having a wife and kid.

    - What's really clear all throughout the book is how much Han loves Leia and Ben and how devoted he is to them. He is constantly thinking and worried about him and about how much he misses and loves them. Yes, he worries he's a bad father, but the point is a bad father wouldn't worry about how good a father he was being, he just wouldn't care at all! He's trying so hard. The things he worries about are incredibly minor things, like giving Ben a toy blaster and then having Leia say that it's too violent for a toddler, and then he just kicks himself for even giving it to Ben in the first place. It's really just Han's insecurity and the fact that he's in a totally new place and never had a father figure growing up showing.

    - Man, Qi'ra really did a number on Han. The flashback is two years post Solo and he's been spending the time mourning and crying over her in cantinas heartbroken. It is unclear of what exactly happened of course, but it rang to me more of a "she dumped me and then died" than she just died. If she had just tragically died I think he would be able to speak her name, but he says "it doesn't matter" what her name was to Sana. But then he seems to move onto Sana VERY quickly. Like one chapter he's crying in his beer about Qi'ra, and the next he's like "Sana is looking fine, I bet she's into me". I'm not sure if we're supposed to assume by the end of the flashbacks he's finally moved on from Qi'ra then but I guess so?

    - Sana is so bad ass and awesome. I love how she's kind of similar to Leia in that she's just totally unimpressed with Han's antics, which only makes her more attractive to Han. Ha, sound familiar? Her interactions with Han are great.

    - Lando is amazing in all of this. The scene of him going through his cape closet or the one of him picking out his pants so that they're tight enough to show a bulge but not tight enough so that he can still shimmy across the dance floor is one of my favourite EU passages now.

    - Han holding Leia while she cries about Alderaan and breaking inside because of her grief. Ouch, my heart.

    - While reading I found the contrast between Han and Leia's dynamic in Legends vs. the new canon interesting. In Legends, Leia was really the most absent wife and mother, constantly putting the New Republic above Han and the kid and Han was the endlessly patient and understanding primary caregiver. In this new canon, Han is the one struggling in the role of husband and father and Leia is basically saint like in her endless patience of him adjusting to the role in the Aftermath trilogy and Last Shot. The main difference I see is that in Legends Han and Leia waited 5 years and their kids were planned and Han desperately wanted kids, while Ben was a surprise and immediately after Endor. In both cases though, it appears Han is the primary caregiver while Leia is the career parent.

    - The holocall between Han and Leia in the end sounds like it was written by a fanfic writer lol (I mean that in a good way). It's super adorable and Leia is completely understanding of how Han feels like sometimes he has to get away for a while and get adventuring out of his system, but warns him that she's going to need a break from Ben too and he can stay home with Ben. Which is what coparenting looks like! Also now, DJ Older has to write that adventure of Han and Leia going off and leaving Ben with a sitter. (Er, just not that caf droid).

    - Final note: I think one thing Legends Han and Disney Han have in common is that they both have a deep insecurity deep down that they aren't good enough for Leia and the life they've built together, probably rooted in Leia being a princess and Han being a former smuggler. Disney Han is much more restless and deals with his insecurity by going on adventures while Legends Han was much more content at home, but I see a lot of similarities between the two versions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
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  12. Giovs

    Giovs Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 29, 2013
    That's good to know! I can't wait for my copy to arrive so I can read it!
    I've been waiting for a novel like this in canon for some time now.
     
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  13. wobbits

    wobbits Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 12, 2017
    I started it and couldn't put it down. Bought it at 9 am and had it finished by 1.
     
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  14. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 28, 2016
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

    I'm crying
     
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  15. unicorn

    unicorn Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 19, 2001
  16. Ginger

    Ginger Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 27, 2001
    I just returned from a trip to Disneyworld Orlando, and while there saw the Star Wars: A Galactic Spectacular at Disney's Hollywood Studios, which is a nighttime light/projection/fireworks show featuring memorable moments from all of the Star Wars movies including now the Last Jedi. I was thrilled to see that Han and Leia got their own montage of romantic scenes and hugs. [face_love]

    I've started reading Last Shot and I'm loving the book, especially the cute and touching Solo family scenes. Sorry, but if there are really people who are seeing abuse and neglect there then they must be working extra hard at it. Talk about kill-joys who apparently get off on misery.
     
  17. unicorn

    unicorn Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 19, 2001


    This Bryan Young seems to have read a completely different book than me. The book shows Han and Leia as completely present, hands on, affectionate, loving, devoted parents, yet this Bryan Young guy says that they neglected Ben all the time to work on the New Republic so Ben was totally justified "rebelling" against them by joining a fascist dictatorship that blows up planets because "the New Republic took his parents away from him". Apparently according to this guy if you are a parent and have ever spent a single second away from your kid, left them with a sitter, or left them in day care you're now a neglectful parent.

    Ben is shown in the book like 20 times with Han or Leia or both and each time being cuddled hugged, held, kissed and played with and literally twice with a droid (both times very briefly) and suddenly the narrative coming out of this book is "OMG Han and Leia abandoned Ben to be raised by droids!"

    The lesson you should have really learned from the book was 1) Ben was absolutely adored, doted on, loved and cared for by Han and Leia and 2) Learning about Leia's PTSD from Alderaan makes the fact that Kylo joined a fascist dictatorship that blows up planets even worse.

    The author himself has said that he wasn't foreshadowing anything in the book about what happens later to Ben, yet because of what we know happens to Kylo later on, everyone is reading into things that clearly aren't there.

    Anyway here's my favourite part of the book:

     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2018
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  18. unicorn

    unicorn Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 19, 2001


     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
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  19. Xander Vos

    Xander Vos Jedi Knight star 3

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    Aug 3, 2013
    I don't think that's fair, he seems to be speculating for reasons why Ben would be frustrated with his parents, not saying they were neglectful.
     
  20. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    I'm guessing this is the same Bryan Young that's a huge Empire fan, involved with stardestroyer.net, writing Turbolaser Commentaries about the awesomeness of Imperial turbolasers, writing essays on how the Empire is good and the Rebellion is bad?

    If they were going into the story with the "Empire good, Rebels bad" assumption firmly fixed, makes sense that they'd cherry-pick the book for scenes, and put the harshest possible interpretation on them.
     
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  21. unicorn

    unicorn Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 19, 2001
    Ah okay, that makes sense. He's also very pro Kylo and Reylo, so he's going to be going into the book with a biased opinion. I seriously don't get how anyone can read this book and think Han and Leia were neglectful/absent parents unless they had an agenda going in.

    Another part that cracked me up:

     
  22. unicorn

    unicorn Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 19, 2001
    spoilers for Solo

    https://www.gamesradar.com/the-writ...one-were-not-dealing-with-the-spiritual-side/

    “Han is the least chaste character in the Star Wars saga, so we saw making a young Han movie as an opportunity to really deal with a romantic and sexual relationship where he’s truly attracted to a woman and it’s a big part of the dynamic,” Jonathan said.

    I don't care if Han had a gf before Leia, but what is he talking about that this is the first time they've shown Han truly attracted to a woman on screen? What about you know, the entire OT?
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018