JCC Happy 23rd :)

He means that there is very likely harassment or rape going on there too, but not being reported.

 

Honestly... Maybe in the hospitals, with nurses and such. But, the sort of women who make it into the Russian Airborne recon units, for example, trying to harass one of those would not end very well for a fellow anyway

 

Oh, by the way, I'm not Jabba-wocky and I think it's insane to support the annexation of Crimea, a territory that is "Russian" only by virtue of ethnic cleansing of Crimean Tatars by Catherine the Great and Stalin (Tatars, having enjoyed special status in Ukraine and being distrustful of the Russian Federation, do not support the annexation, by the way); a territory that was legally and voluntarily transferred from the RSFSR to the Ukraine SSR shortly after World War II. And generally, one country taking the sovereign territory of another country for any reason-- let alone almost completely unprovoked-- is rightly an international taboo.

 

Tatars enjoy a MUCH more "special" status in Crimea today. More Tatars are in government positions now, than under Kiev; and, btw, Tatar families who were left, before, to squat for years, after returning from Central Asia, from the Stalin exile (because their old villages were already settled, now, by Russians and Ukrainians) are receiving new, proper housing, finally


I have also explained before, here too, that the Tatars are NOT the indigenous group in Crimea, as Western press keeps claiming, basing their info on Ukrainian propaganda. Crimean Tauridian Greeks, like my own grandmother, are the native people there


And they support Russia, btw

 

What's Tatars, Precious?

 

A Turkic people. Majority of them have long lived in Russia, in their own autonomous republic, Tatarstan, and some other areas around the country. They number about 5,000,000 people, making them the largest Muslim ethnic group in Russia. Their relatives, the Bashkir people, are another couple million. Crimean Tatars are considered a sub-ethnos of their own, with linguistic and other differences. They had lived in Crimea since the 15th century. They are not any more "native" there than white people in North America, btw.

And, something else.

Crimean Tatars had for centuries engaged in kidnapping and slavery:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean–Nogai_raids_into_East_Slavic_lands
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Khanate#Slave_trade
https://mikedashhistory.com/2015/01...dren-in-the-slave-markets-of-medieval-crimea/

This **** went on precisely until Ekaterina II crushed these ****ers with her army.

Just curious, Darth Guy, do you approve of slavery? I am guessing not. I hope not.

 

Yes! Any ethnic group that has ever participated in enslaving people should be the subject of a military invasion centuries after the fact and have their representative government dissolved by the occupying military! I agree.

I presume, therefore, that you'll be supporting the imminent invasion of Russia and the banning of the Duma? Because of course this position of yours is completely heartfelt, and not a incoherent, craven defense of Russia's flagrant violation of international law, right?


Oh, wait.

 

Russia had own slavery, serfdom, yes. I discussed it in detail in a different thread here. Funnily enough, it did not take a civil war ti end it over there, few years before the US emancipated its slaves Though, the Commies pretty much brought it back, with their collectivization of agriculture...

Anyway, honestly, if there was some kind of benevolent force that could go into Russia, today, overthrow Putin, and install something better there, I would be glad to support it. I am not seeing that, so far, though. I have observed the Western "regime change" in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria, now Yemen, where America is backing the Saudis and their Sunni proxies. Western intervention only seems to make things worse in all those places... More violence and needless loss of life. Russia is a even more complicated place than Yugoslavia or Mid East. No outside player can set them on the right path. They have to find it on their own. I am not confident they ever will. They have always got lost before... But, I always have, at least, tried to be optimistic...

Well, and, an attempted invasion of Russia, today, would probably draw a nuclear responce, end the whole damn world... No, thanks.

 

Is Jabba-wocky derailing the thread again with his misrepresent/oh wait routine?
I guess his goal is to do it on every page of this thread.

 

Is Superwatto charging into a political discussion about a country not his own, ostentatious an tone deaf? Because we're having a pretty clear discussion about Sergey's admitted support for the dissolution of the Tatar Mejlis by Russia. There's an inherent hypocrisy in that position.

 

I understand the tone fine: angry misplaced middle-of-the-night ramble about people that aren't American, as usual.

 

None, whatsoever. No other ethnic group, in Russia, Ukraine, anywhere in the former Soviet Union, has an ethnic self government organ of any sort. None. Including the Russian, Kazan Tatars. They have own republic, Tatarstan, which has own autonomous government, Tatar language co-official with Russian and taught at schools (same now in Crimea, btw), government funding for their cultural activities (in Crimea also, in fact, it was only AFTER Russia took back Crimea that Crimean Tatar holidays were elevated to statutory status, and funding was made available to them for their celebration events). But, Tatarstan does not contain only Tatars either. Roughly speaking, Tatars are 52% of the population there, Russians - 40%, and there are otger, smaller ethnic groups, like the Chuvash, etc. The government of Tararstan does NOT represent just Tatars, as an ethnic group. The head of the government is Tatar. But, the regional head of the police, for example, is Russian. There is ethnic based governance, anywhere, it doesn't work like that. Would you have, in America, special self-government bodies only for white people, or only for black people, Latinos, etc?

Well, Aboriginals (Injuns, as you Americans call them) seem to have their own band chiefs and governments, here in Canada. That's the only comparable system I can think of. In ex-USSR though, there is no precedent for this.

 

Mmmm, tatars.

 

Doesn't a semi-autonomous republic actually have more authority and ability to advance the interests of its constituents than an ethnic assembly that is only advisory at best? We have a Sámi assembly here that represents the interests of the northern indigenous Sámi people. The assembly has no actual authority to decide anything. It merely acts as an advisory communication channel for the central government about Sámi interests. Mere symbolism.

 

I don't know much about the Sami or their way of governance. I do know that the Tatar Mejlis in Crimea was used by Kiev openly against the ethnic Russian population there, for years. There were many members who openly hated Russia and Russians, as a nation. Although, there were more moderate and reasonable ones many of whom, funnily enough, now hold positions in the actual Crimean government, at municipal and regional levels. Ruslan Balbek, a Crimean Tatar dissident who was organized protests and otherwise opposed Mustafa Dzhemilev and other old Russophobes in Mejlis

and was arrested for this in 2011 by the Ukrainians

became Deputy Prime Minister of Crimea when the Russians took over in 2014

and is now in Moscow, representing Crimea in the Duma, the Russian parliament, along with the now former head prosecutor Natalia Poklonskaya.

The Deputy Speaker of Crimea's own regional legislature is also Tatar. Among others. They are actually more represented than ever before. Under Kiev, there were almost no Tatars in the regional Crimean government, at all. Or in Kiev. Dzhemilev was only put in Rada, the Ukrainian parliament, AFTER 2014, after Maidan and all the subsequent events.

I also don't deny that much of the above waa done by the so-called "pro-Russian" government of Viktor Yanukovich, who was overthrown by Maidan and is now sitting in exile in Moscow. My Crimean relatives say he was always a two faced snake, no real friend to Russia, and giving him and his family and other politicians close to him asylum in Russia was a mistake by Putin. They are probably right.

 

Can you make a power point presentation as well?

 

I am good at those Other people, friends and family, actually ask me to put their together for them, very often. We all have our talents...

And yes, I know, my posys are often long with lots of pics. I don't force anyobe who doesn't enjoy it to read and respond to it, do I?

 

A couple points:

1. Pointing out that "no other" ethnic group in Russia had such a representative body is beside the point, and not at all a defense. The history of every nation is peculiar, and the organization of ait s political structure is a reflection of its history. The set-up of the British crown in the relation to its government is pretty unique and bizarre, too. That doesn't make it illegitimate.

2. By your own admission, the Tatars that are now elevated to power were all friendly to Putin, and those that were banned are all opposed to him. That's just a coincidence? Is it fair or legitimate to allow or disallow someone to have political power based only on the question of how much they agree with an occupying military force?

 

Hey guys, I haven't been here for a while. What is this.

 

Hail lexu

 

I just hope Sergey doesn't contract a sexually transmitted disease or develops a bowel complaint and decides to start a thread about it.