Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Parts I & II (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by Obi-Ewan, Jul 21, 2009.

  1. Rebel_Padawan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2003
    star 4
    He is technically in a background scene in Order of the Phoenix but it feels completely random for him to be there.


    Stylistically I think it would be great if both Deathly Hallows movies opened with a shot of the relevant characters walking up to Malfoy Mannor. Meaning the opening looks exactly the same for both films until you realise which characters are walking/being lead to the house.
  2. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    I didn't know that, but that's not what I meant. I was referring to the fact that he had a VERY heated arguement with Molly and Arthur over their decision to side with Harry and Dumbledore, rather than the Ministry, following Voldemort's return. As a result he becomes persona non grata in the Weasly household for most of the next two books.
  3. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    Well outside the parents and the Weasley kids at Hogwarts, the "other" Weasley sibblings have been short changed as far as the movies go. Percy became less relevant so he became less frequent. Which I agree is sad because the moment of reconciliation with his parents was beautiful imo. :p But I am still disappointed that Charlie and Bill have only been mentioned in passing and haven't made at least a cameo.
  4. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    Yeah. Even though it was mostly behind the scenes, Percy's protracted disagreement with his parents over Harry, and his description of Cedric's death at the hand of Voldemort, added a lot of emotional punch to the last three books. Harry and Ron have been through hell together and the Weasleys in general have always been Harry's most loyal supporters. As a result it seemed completely inconcievable that Percy would doubt Harry's story, which is why the revelation that Percy thinks Harry is lying adds so much dramatic impact to OOTP, HBP and DH.

    Well, apparently the wedding scene is going to appear in the film, although I don't know where considering that the Burrow was blown up by Death Eaters. But it means that only Weasley we havn't met is Charlie.
  5. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    I'm developing a provisional outline for the two films, which I'll post as I complete it. The outline is by no means dogmatic, and I hope you'll debate details with me, but its structure is based on an equal balancing of action set-pieces (Potter films generally have five or six of these); thus any shifting of sequence(s) from one film to the the other must be properly balanced in the modified version. Also, I've tried to be realistic about changes, deletions, compressions, expansions and inventions. These changes are unfortunate (I would one day love to see complete, unabridged, 9-hour versions of each book), but inevitable given the nature of the adaptation.

    FILM ONE

    Title Sequence: We swoop through the WB logo into Malfoy Manor, where Voldemort rants about killing Potter, then borrows Lucius' wand to kill-curse the teacher of Muggle studies. BANG! TITLE up: HARRY POTTER AND THE DEATHLY HALLOWS Part One.

    ACT ONE (first ten minutes): Harry rummages his school trunk at 4 Privet Drive. He lingers over a few pics and articles about Dumbledore (maybe we get our first DD flashback here), but there's no time to lose just now. Harry barks at the disbelieving Dursleys that they are in mortal danger; the Order of the Phoenix arrive to 1) spirit the idiot Dursleys to safety (Harry shakes Dudley's hand before leaving), and 2) to take Harry to safety while impersonating him via Polyjuice Potion. Harry goes off with Hagrid on his tricked-out motorbike... with Voldemort hot on their heels! Harry's wand breaks Lucius/Voldemort's wand, before Harry escapes into the protective charms of 12 Grimmauld Place. (I'd like to see the entire chase sequence and all its participants, intercut a-la ROTJ, with Harry and Hagrid as the main action while toggling among the break-neck pursuits of Ron, Fred, George, Hermione, Fleur and Mundungus Fletcher!)

    ACT TWO (second fifteen minutes): At 12 Grimmauld, everyone reconnoiters while the casualties are counted: Hedwig and Mad-Eye Moody are dead; George lost an ear. There is some dialogue to the effect that they will all be safe here now that Harry has inherited the house. Harry, Ron and Hermione have a breathless discussion about their next step in the quest to destroy the Horcruxes. The stage is set for the entire film to follow.

    END OF ACT ONE
  6. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    Note: The second act of a modern film tends to be about an hour long. The Potter films, like the Star Wars and James Bond movies, tend to have second acts of about an hour and ten to an hour and fifteen minutes in length.

    ACT TWO (first quarter, up to about 50 minutes into the movie): Harry and Ginny have their "break up tenderly for the sake of her safety" scene. Harry's b-day and the preparations for the Bill/Fleur wedding. (This sequence is really the last chance at light comedy, magical charm and familial warmth these films are going to have.) Scrimgeour (Bill Nighy!) comes to deliver to the trio the last effects of Dumbledore: the Deluminator, the Tales of Beedle, the Golden Snitch, the Sword of Gryffindor (which Scrimgeour keeps). Discussion of their significance ensues. Perhaps some DD flashbacks here.

    (Second quarter, up to about an hour and ten minutes into the movie): The wedding, with Harry disguised as the Weasley cousin, is interrupted by Shacklebolt's patronus, which sends everyone running. The trio are located and chased by two Death Eaters, whom they escape before returning to 12 Grimmauld, where the trio realize the truth about RAB. Kreacher gives up the story of Regulus' deception and names Mundungus Fletcher as the holder of the real locket. Fletcher, for his part, relates that Delores Umbridge now has the locket at the Ministry of Magic.

    (Third quarter, up to about an hour and a half into the movie): The infiltration of the Ministry! The trio use Polyjuice to impersonate Ministry officials! Harry retrieves Mad-Eye's mad eye for proper burial! Harry and Hermione knock out Umbridge and snatch the Horcrux! They then free a number of Muggle-borns! They escape but their hiding place is compromised! Ron is injured and they flee into the countryside!

    (Fourth quarter, up to about an hour and fifty minutes into the movie): The trio camp for several months, before learning from Dean Thomas and friends that the Sword in the Lestrange vault is a copy, and the real one is in parts unknown. Harry questions the portrait of Phineas Black and discovers Dumbledore had last used the Sword to destroy the Ring Horcrux. Ron, discouraged that the quest may be unwinnable, leaves. Hermione weeps into the night.

    END OF ACT TWO
  7. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    (NOTE: The third and final act tends to be about a half-hour in length.)

    ACT THREE

    (First fifteen minutes): The proto-climax. Harry and Hermione at Godric's Hollow. Harry honors his parents at their grave. The pair meet with Bathilda Bagshot, thinking DD may have given her the Sword for safekeeping. The story of Grindelwald unfolds. Bathilda is of course really Nagini, Voldemort's snake, who nearly eats Hermione (and who can blame it?), before the duo escape -- but not before Hermione accidentally breaks Harry's wand.

    (Second fifteen minutes): The climax! Harry and Hermione run for days (in a cinematic montage of images and passing time). A doe patronus appears in the forest and leads Harry to a frozen pool, where resides the Sword of Gryffindor! Harry dives in but the Locket around his neck tries to drown him! Ron returns to save Harry and pull the Sword from the pool! Ron opens the Locket to destroy it and is taunted by a vision sent by Voldemort's eye (inside the Locket) which twists Harry and Hermione's friendship into something to be jealous about. Ron destroys the Hocrux and accepts Harry's explanation that he and Hermione are just good friends.

    Denouement (final five minutes): Hermione is furious with Ron, but he explains he tried to come back almost immediately after leaving, but Hermione's protective spells made it impossible for him to find them. He used the Deluminator to find his way to them. Hermione declares that their next step is to visit Xenophilius Lovegood and ask him about Grindelwald's mark (which has been showing up at various points in the film so far)!

    END OF FILM ONE!

    (NOTE: Given the time and structural limitations I must admit that the Lovegood sequence must go at the beginning of Film 2 rather than at the climax of Film 1 as I earlier opined. Apologies all around!)
  8. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    A film calling itself Deathly Hallows cannot end without any mention or explanation of what they are.

    Also, according to this story, the Burrow is confirmed to re-appear.

  9. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    That's exactly what I'd been saying all along about the title. Originally I was steadfast in my opinion that the Lovegood house, and attendant revelation of the Hallows, MUST be the proper cut-off point between the films. However, given the general outline as I've laid it out, where might we fit it in? We'll have to shave off some other elements of the movie to fit in this 15-to-20-minute sequence, replete as it is with flashbacks and essential information. I suppose the running time could be expanded a bit, but that would make it the longest Potter film so far. What's the solution here?

    And what do you mean "according to this story, the Burrow is confirmed to re-appear"? What story? :confused:
  10. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    I think he means your outline, since Bellatrix burned down the Burrow in HBP.
  11. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    In that case I'm even more confused, since the Burrow doesn't appear in my outline (I've replaced it with 12 Grimmauld Place). Thus I reiterate: :confused:
  12. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    Whoops, my bad, guess I need to repost.

    http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2009/8/6/deathly-hallows-update-rumors-on-seven-potters-scrimgeour-plus-new-ootp-high-res-photos

    I think it's fair to say that we can't use your outline as an absolute guideline for how the film will be doing it.
    A Part I that doesn't explain the Deathly Hallows would be a wild goose chase.
  13. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    Something else occurred to me: do we really need to have George's ear severred? I've come to the conclusion that the purpose it serves is not for one of the heroes to suffer a scar of battle, but only to have one more action of Snape's that has to be re-evaluated once his true loyalty is revealed, and all of that is done in flashbacks at the end. It already needs to explain Snape killing Dumbledore, leaking info about Harry's departure from Privet Drive, and switching out the Sword of Griffindor for a fake. Showing him accidentally injure George Weasley when trying to kill a fellow Death Eater seems like one thing too many.
  14. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    I think I made it clear I didn't want to be dogmatic about my outline. It's supposed to be in fun. Obviously the real script was written sometime last year, and I have no insider information on what it contains or how it's structured. I'm looking for a debate/dialogue/discussion about it, and about how to arrange the necessary elements of the story in an exciting and satisfying way -- not snarky and obvious assertions about how "we can't use your outline as an absolute guideline". Yeah, no kidding we can't.

    Meanwhile, if you have any ideas about how to structure the film in such a way that it includes the Lovegood sequence, please elucidate.

    And BTW, you still haven't answered my questions about what you meant by your Burrow remarks.
  15. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    And BTW, you still haven't answered my questions about what you meant by your Burrow remarks.

    Um, did you click the link? The story is there of the Burrow having been rebuilt for use in the final movie.

    I would suggest that the time between Harry's arrival at the Burrow and the wedding could be crunched. It's really several days of the same material--Mrs. Weasley keeping Harry away from everyone else. The sixth movie didn't talk much about Harry breaking up with Ginny for her safety--which he did at the end of the book. We don't need a great deal of argument about it in the film.

    Any time several days go by of monotonous material, or with nothing of interest happening, will also need to be crunched. Remember, in the first book, after Harry meets Hagrid and goes to Diagon Alley, he also goes back to the Dursleys until it's time for him to leave for school. In the film, that return home is skipped. I would expect something similar here. After Kreacher leaves to fetch Mundungus, there will be little time wasted before he returns with him. Once the trio decides they must invade the Ministry, we can dispense with the details of their preparation, and skip straight to the day when they do it. I would expect the same during the several days (or weeks) they spend camping.
  16. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    Okay, according to Obi-Ewan's link (which didn't work for me the first time I clicked it), reports have it that the Scrimgeour/Dumbledore's Will scene is taking place at the Burrow. Hmmmm. This is disappointing to me, since it renders pointless the burning of the house in HBP. Here I've been defending the burning sequence as important based on the likelihood that it would have repercussions in DH, but this appears not to be the case. It looks like the criticisms of the burning sequence for being pointless and ineffectual are more or less spot-on. I'm bummed. :(

    Meanwhile, yes, of course the days and months of relative inactivity in the story will be compressed into montages, or else deleted altogether. I've certainly done that in my outline above... but I'm still pressed for time when it comes to the Lovegood house. Once more for the record Obi-Ewan, since you seem to keep missing my point here, it has been my intention and opinion all along that the Lovegood house/Hallows exposition should happen in the first film. It only makes sense to frame the revelation of the Hallows as the climax of Film 1. Going back over the last page of this thread, you can see I've been vocally debating others who said the sequence should go in Film 2.

    The problem arises, however, that there simply isn't enough room for it in the outline I've devised! Something else will have to go for Lovegood to fit; or else certain other scenes will have to be edited down to half their current length. IMO, the Bill/Fleur wedding should be the thing to go. It does not advance the main plot, it's something of a sidebar to the story, and features characters who have not been seen in several films. Scuttle the wedding up front, IMO, and there will be time for the Lovegood house scene at the end, with the Death Eaters arriving at the climax!

    Now we're ready for Film 2.
  17. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    The problem arises, however, that there simply isn't enough room for it in the outline I've devised!

    Then the problem is your outline, or at least the time breakdown therein. These films are 2.5 hours a piece, that's plenty of time.
  18. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    Wow, thanks for the constructive criticism and helpful suggestions! It sure has been fun discussing creative matters with you and sharing ideas! I look forward to your next post with tremendous excitement and heartfelt anticipation!
  19. General_Grievous Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 1
    So I just read that Blaise Zabini's character has replaced Vincent Crabbe in the Room of Requirement scene.

    The actor who played Crabbe was sentence to 120 hours of community service for growing pot. Not saying what he did was right, but since it's just community service, why completely switch the character?

    I guess Goyle will now do Crabbes action, but still it kinda blows that they just wrote him off the film entirely.
  20. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    I agree that's rather lame, especially given that marijuana is controversial, has medicinal properties, is legal in some parts of the world, etc. Switching characters in what is destined to be a film for the ages based on outdated drug laws is a bad decision, IMO. :mad:
  21. General_Grievous Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 1
    The crap part about it is that if Rupert Grint, Emma Watson, or Daniel Radcliffe were sentenced to 120 hours of community service, they would not replace them on the final film.

    Waylett doesn't need to be replaced, they're just doing it because they can. The room of requirement scene was one of my favorite sequences in the entire Harry Potter books and now it's being changed over someone who likes marijuana.

    It's not like the Harry Potter books never touched upon controversial things such as murder, witchcraft, masturbation jokes, and beastiality.



    We can only hope that with 2 years until the release of DH part 2, they change their mind. Until then, this is just another reason why the movies fall way short in my eyes.
  22. Darth Pipes Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 5
    I don't understand why they just don't replace the actor playing Crabbe instead. Crabbe hasn't been a big presence in the movies so you could easily just slip in another act. Crabbe and Goyle are interchangable so it doesn't matter which one gets killed as long as its not Zabini.
  23. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Goyle was MIA for most of Prisoner of Azkaban as well, due to the actor having to take final exams at his school or something. Another boy stood in for him in most of that movie. I'll assume that boy was supposed to be Theodore Nott.
  24. Count_Doodie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2006
    star 2
    yeah it looks like Goyle will be the one biting the dust instead of crabbe. so i guess the guy playing crabbe isnt gonna be in the film at all. teaches him to break the law doesnt it?
    -doodie
  25. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    It also appears that, if that actor's word is anything to go by, they will in fact be splitting the film after they meet Xenophilius Lovegood.

    No offense intended, but why should I have to explain, in terms of your outline, how he could fit in the first film, when the chances were always slim that your outline was what they were going by?