Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince ***Spoilers***

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by Jedi_Master_Conor, Jul 11, 2007.

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  1. Koohii Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    99% of everything is crap.
    The 1% is amazing, rare, and wonderful, worthy of celebration.
    What can I say--I'm picky.
  2. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    I hope Wild Things falls into that nigh-unattainable 1% for you. Early buzz seems to indicate it just might, but I don't want to get your hopes up only to have them dashed.

    As to Potter [SPOILERS ahead] I share the general disappointment among readers of the book that the climactic end-battle in the film is anything but. Future viewings, prepared with the knowledge that the climax is an intimate, spiteful romp through Hogwarts with no opposition from the school staff, may temper my chagrin somewhat. But I still would like to know what the filmmakers think all the teachers were doing whilst LeStrange and co. were blowing up the Dining Hall and exploding Hagrid's hut! Where was Magonagal? Cowering in her room? Wouldn't she, and the dozen or so other teachers, have heard or sensed the goings-on and joined the invaders in some kind of mini-battle? That's what happened in the book, and dammit it makes sense that way. I understand (and have defended the movie based on) that the producers wanted a unique and novel experience for the audience, rather than repeating the wizard battles of OotP and DH; but at the same time I feel they could have opened up the scale a little bit, given Harry a little back-up in the Tower or elsewhere on the grounds, and increased the level of excitement.

    As it stands this subtle, slow-building story does not build toward anything especially powerful. Even the death of Dumbledore, while poignant, lacks the OOMF it had in the book, and could have had here. The deletion of the funeral in favor of more angsty blather from the team was also ill-advised, IMO. If anything, they could have had the same conversations in the midst of the funeral, instead of hanging out in yet another gorgeous landscape shot. And how is it that Harry is fingering Dumbledore's wand in the Headmaster's office after the death scene? Shouldn't that be buried in DD's tomb, awaiting discovery as a major plot point in DH? And what of the Ravenclaw diadem, supposed to have been noticed by Harry in the Room of Requirement as, again, a plot point for DH?

    The filmmakers have got a lot of work ahead: they've got a lot of holes to fill in in DH, which I suspect is partly why the thing is a two-parter: They have to mention all the important plot elements they've cut out of the last two films.
  3. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    Wrong, in the first two films it was Hogwarts uniform all the time. It started with PoA, and I remember Bib Fortuna, Twi'lek being annoyed at this.
  4. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    Actually I seem to recall the three principles wore regular clothing during the climax to find the Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone in the first film.
  5. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    The kids wore Muggle clothes while they sought the Sorcerer's Stone. It's just that the first two movies spent more time in class than the others, so the perception is that they're in uniform all the time, which clearly isn't the case. During any downtime after classes, the kids are all wearing Muggle clothes. Harry and Ron are wearing their uniforms during the climax of Chamber of Secrets mainly due to the fact that they were recently in class and didn't have time to change before they went after Ginny.
  6. Sn4tcH Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2004
    star 4
    For those complaining about the battle at Hogwarts being cut, Yates has stated that he felt that cutting the battle in HPB, would make the final battle in Deathly Hallows feel that much more epic. I'm not saying it's okay, but it's an explanation. As for the cutting of Dumbledores funeral... this I feel is more unforgivable, for personal reason. The whole scene was so emotional and heartbreaking, it's one of the main reasons why HPB is my favorite book in the series.
  7. darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2007
    star 5
    Rereading Deathly Hallows, and I'm very interested to see how Yates, who has brought a somewhat darker style to the films, will handle some of the over-the-top things in Deathly Hallows. I'm thinking the wedding, the whole Dumbledore bit, just how he'll represent it as being heart-breaking to Harry, Gringotts scene and so on. If the next two are as good as the last two, though, I think we'll be in for a real treat.

    Also, do you think he'll split it after the Silver Doe chapter, which I wouldn't mind, but I was also thinking it would be cool to end at the line that Xenophilius says, "You mean the symbol of the Deathly Hallows?" Leading into the beginning of the next movie being an explanation of the Tale of the Three Brothers.
  8. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    Yates has stated that he felt that cutting the battle in HPB, would make the final battle in Deathly Hallows feel that much more epic. I'm not saying it's okay, but it's an explanation. As for the cutting of Dumbledores funeral... this I feel is more unforgivable, for personal reason. The whole scene was so emotional and heartbreaking, it's one of the main reasons why HPB is my favorite book in the series.

    Another reason to pare down the end battle is to make the scene more intimate, with Harry on his own against all these Death Eaters. It evokes or looks back to the moody, excellent climax of GoF, and is trying perhaps to resonate with that situation rather than repeating the wizard-battle motif of the previous film.
  9. Rebel_Padawan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2003
    star 4
    I finally got around to seeing this movie tonight and I was highly impressed. Really nothing to complain about at all, mostly just minor insignificant things...

    Is it just me, or did the Weasley's shop in Diagon Alley take the space of where Gringotts (sp?) was in the first couple of films?

    Despite Daniel having his 'eyes closed', he appeared to anticipate the Kiss coming from Ginny as he opened his mouth before she got to him :p
  10. AcklayComeHome Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2002
    star 7
    I guess when it's all in your head you can predict it ;)
  11. Obi Anne FF admin Celebrations, Europe

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1998
    star 7
    Saw the film tonight, and I liked it, but I'm not a HP fan. In fact this was the first one where I've read the book before seeing the film. In that way I think I picked up on a few things that I wouldn't have otherwise. I laughed a lot more than I thought I would, and I really think the romance was handled really well. I guess though with Bill and Fleur cut from this film, and the Burrow destroyed, then we wont see the wedding in the next films. And I really liked their wedding.

    Also when it comes to trailers I think it was a big mistake of showing the original "where the wild things are"-trailer here. When it came to "one of the most loved stories" almost everybody in the audience just turned and asked "what is that" and then it felt more laughable than serious. You can't just show the same trailer to an audience who's never heard of it.
  12. Winged_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    This was the best Potter film, certainly. But the horrible ending almost ruined it for me. I completely disagree with the decision to transform the book's heartstopping finish into something so subdued and anti-climactic.

    Yates misjudged that badly, I feel.
  13. Count_Doodie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2006
    star 2
    ?It must be drunk...?

    Really? I mean really? You?re a wizard. At least try and vanish it or transfigure it. Or I dunno, use the shell and tip it out. Pour it over your shoulder! Heck, use your robes and soak the damn thing up! At least try something before you drink the crazy liquid in the middle of the lake in the place you had to cut open your hand to gain entrance! Dammit Klovis is lazy sometimes.

    -doodie
  14. MasterGandalf Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2009
    star 1
    The impression I got from both book and movie was that Dumbledore, being one of the greatest wizards of all time, was able to sense spells bound into the potion to prevent any of that from working, and any further testing would have just been a waste of time. It might have been possible to undo said spells, but that would a). probably take a very long time and b). wake the Inferi. Therefor, drinking the thing really was the only practical option.
  15. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    Yes, we just get the sense that DD has prior knowledge of the basin and how to deal with it, or else he is sensing the proper course of action on the spot. Either way, it's not "lazy writing" to imbue a wizard character with apparently extrasensory understanding of some kind, especially for the sake of cinematic expediency. Expository dialogue to point out "well, I can't throw it over my shoulder because X will happen" would be ponderously leaden in the midst of an otherwise chilling and magical scene.
  16. Count_Doodie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2006
    star 2
    dont know which book you read Gandalf but the one i read shows that only after trying everything else Dumbledore comes to the conclusion that the potion must be drunk. i can accept the "cinematic expediency" argument but i still think Klovis is lazy. one example, "once again i must ask too much of you Harry." cut to next scene "i promised you that you could come with me." What?! at no point in the film did Harry tell DD that he wished to accompany him on his horcrux hunt. i could go on but i think we all remember Klovis' handling of priori incantatem... the man is lazy at times but sometimes he is very good. credit where it is deserved, the "it feels like this." scene - marvelous!
    -doodie
  17. MasterGandalf Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2009
    star 1
    It's been more than a year since I've read the book, and it's currently in storage so I can't easily check the specifics of what he did (but it still didn't involve exhaustive testing of all alternatives)- but I still have no problem with Dumbledore simply being able to tell what spells Voldemort put in place to defend his Horcrux. He does pretty much the exact same thing with the wall that requires a blood sacrifice and finding the boat, after all. Besides, Voldemort probably would have made it fairly easy to determine what his traps did (at least in general), so that people would either be scared off or be suckered into trying to get past them.

    In any event, a powerful wizard being able to recognize protective spells set in place by another powerful wizard who was once his student is hardly something that bothers me.
  18. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    I, Merlin, agree with Gandalf about Dumbledore. Doodie, being a mere count, does not understand about wizard knowledge as we do. :p
  19. Champion of the Force Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 4
    I love it! [face_laugh]
  20. Count_Doodie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2006
    star 2
    this is just like the time Saruman, The Wizard of Oz and Voldemort wouldnt let me play football with them! :_|

    oh and i would argue my case further by posting the bit where DD lists all the methods he tried on the potion before drinking it but this is getting a little pedantic so i'll let it lie.
    -doodie
  21. MistrX Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    I finally saw it tonight. For the most part I liked it, with the humor factor definitely ramped up as the interviews had hinted. Some of the supporting characters, particularly Malfoy, got a bit more development here, though it was at the expense at the really peripheral characters. It actually felt a bit off near the beginning, but I think the film kind of found its stride once the train was heading to Hogwarts.

    Jim Broadbent I think was a good example of this. At first I thought his performance was a little off, but by the time that first Potions class started, he was cracking me up. This one also probably has my favorite performance by Gambon, since I had missed Harris, finally becoming more accepting of Gambon's take just in time for the character to die. Go figure. Rickman, BTW, had what may be my favorite performance of his in the series so far.

    Some of the cuts were disappointing. We don't really get an explanation on the horcruxes so I'm wondering what the plan is for Harry to figure them out in the next films. The end did feel anticlimactic with Harry being the only one to even notice a group of Death Eaters walking through Hogwarts for some reason. Even so, some of the compression worked better than others like the Ron/Lavender thing and Malfoy's whole plot.

    Though I really did miss the funeral, I kind of liked that the end gave a LOTR: Fellowship of the Ring feel (or as someone else said, TESB). I'm glad the first part of the last one is less than a year and a half away (barring another delay), even knowing how it all ends.

    Worse, Guy Ritchie. Don't get me long, I love Lock, Stock and Snatch, but he doesn't seem right for Holmes to me.

    And it's even closer here since he was only 20 when filming was actually taking place.

    Though, funny enough, in the book Malfoy's one of three students in the class who can't take his Apparition test because he won't be 17 until late in the school year.

    During the Christmas holiday, too.
  22. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    Saw it today and I was pleasantly surprised. I reckon this is the best Potter film to date as it more or less tends to explain everything, but I may have a different opinion the second time I see it.

    I thought the Horcruxes were explained very well, how they were made, the fact Voldemort made seven and that destroying the Horcruxes would destroy Voldemort. What wasn't explained were Dumbledore's speculations on what the Horcuxes might be. (a locket, a cup, a snake, something of Griffndor's or Ravenclaws).

    Draco's Vanishing Cabinet trick worked well, though it was dumbed down I think as it was only hinted at in the novel. But the fact that the paralleled Draco's and Harry's stories was very well done and makes me think if Draco was another foil for Harry (the other one, of course, being Neville).

    Of the burning down of the Burrow, I agree that it seemed pointless and only to illustrate how vulnerable people are, kinda like when a Red Shirt dies. Yet there are other ways of explaining this, perhaps going into details on the unexplained deaths and disappearances. It also annoyed me as whenever the Potter films go outside the established story with dramatic events, they usually seem to ruin them. I refer to the case of the dragon destroying roof tiles in GOF.

    It was FANTASTIC to see Quiddich again! And the cave scene with the inferii was a great last hurrah for Dumbledore. As for the scene of his death, I thought that went very well and didn't mind the addition of Snape telling Harry to be quiet. The omission of the funeral wasn't that bad, but what did annoy me was the fact they took out the ONE scene I had been waiting to see in film after I read the novel four years ago: Fawkes song. It was nice to see Fawkes going away, but was it to hard to factor in his song into the violin chorus when they find Dumbledore's body.

    REALLY, looking forward to the next one. [face_peace]
  23. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    One would hope the next movie opens with Dumbledore's funeral. That would be a great way to expedite the "this is what happened in the last film" stuff.
  24. Darth_Pogey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2005
    star 4
    Id kinda prefer it to open the way the book did with the prologue at malfoy manor that basically does a roll call of all the deatheaters that will figure into the rest of the book/film.
  25. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    Yeah. He kind of did that with this film. The very first scene was Harry and Dumbledore being mobbed by Daily Prophet reporters after the battle at the Ministry of Magic.

    I saw it this afternoon and liked it alot. I like where Yates is taking the series. It feel's like he's moving Harry Potter away from little kids running around with wands and broomsticks to being more along the lines of a dark, supernatural drama.
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