Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by General_Quenobi, Mar 18, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. packerfansam Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2007
    star 2
    Well, they would have probably had to think of a different reason for Hagrid to take the kids out into the forest, but that's not really a big deal at all. It's not like they didn't change other things in the film.
  2. darth_paul Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2000
    star 5
    Ah, but see, that's a crucial example of why it's necessary to see the film first. Because Sirius's death is boring in the film, so musically, it fits! :p (Though I wish I were joking.)

    I haven't listened to the score independently, so my only real thought on the subject is that I don't remember the music. At all. It was utterly forgettable in every way after one viewing of the film and with no external exposure. Not necessarily a bad thing, but that certainly makes it of a different class than the Williams scores, which were highly memorable and still play through my head.

    -Paul
  3. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Saw it again (third time) and I still say the score is very weak. Nothing stands out to me. I hear no music that really makes me take notice. The only time anything is even remotely interesting is when he uses Hedwig's theme. I think the music actually actively hurts the film in a few places, most notably Sirius's death and the DA flying on the thestrals to the Ministry of Magic.

    Sirius's death is utterly anti-climactic and need more punch to it. They were clearly going for a LOTR Gandalf's death vibe for the whole moment, visually and sound-wise. That worked so well in FOTR because the music was so powerful and strong there, even though it was only a few instruments (voices really). Here in OOTP the music needs to grab the emotion on the screen and take it up to the next level. Instead Hooper's garbage actually takes the moment down a few levels. I felt like I could actually feel the audience looking at their watches or at each other or reading the label on their popcorn container.

    For the bit where the DA is flying to the Ministry of Magic, the music is too happy and magical and fun. It distracts from the tension and the urgency of what they are doing. This was a seriously miscalculation of tone by Hooper and/or Yates. Again it actively hurts the film.

    Funnily enough the two film making issues I can think of right off are in these same two scenes. Hmm.
  4. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    This is probably the only place we will agree 100%. Although I think this is one of the better places on the album, it is totally wrong for the scene. We had great magical-beast-flying-through-the-sky music with "Buckbeak's Flight" from PoA, that was not what was needed here (Note: I'm not saying this comes anywhere near the quality of Buckbeak's Flight).

    I too saw the film for the third time on Tuesday, and I still believe the score enhances the movie greatly. The music for the whole Room of Requirement montage is on par with much of Williams' material as far as I'm concerned. With Sirius' death, I'm going back to my original stance that it was scored very well (I could chance my mind again :p ). The music in no way draws attention to itself and is extremely basic which works greatly with the way the scene is presented. I feel it would have been cheesy with the slow motion if the music had been really emotional. It was a great idea to be subtle. Voldermort's possession of Harry is another great piece. Again, it's very simple, but adds a lot of power to the images.

    Like I said before, his action music needs work, but the one aspect I did like about it was that he used space and little moments of silence very well in his action writing. It's quite fresh considering the dense action material of Williams and Doyle.

    Another thing that I felt enhanced the film was its spotting and mixing. Philosopher's Stone, Chamber of Secrets, and Goblet of Fire are scored almost wall-to-wall and the music is overly loud in Philosopher's Stone in places. Williams' themes for the first two films were excellent and captured the spirit of the films to the T, but a lot of the unneeded underscore was weak and actually hurt the films in my mind. Silence, when used properly, can be extremely effective, and that is one aspect that I really liked in Phoenix (and Azkaban) -- it isn't over scored.
  5. __Vader__ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 3
    After seeing the movie and listening to the score twice:

    Slightly better than Doyle's GOF. Doyle, although he had better leitmotif, just didn't compose great music. Hooper has very little leitmotif, but has a quieter compositional style. The standout track on the album is by far "Flight of the Order of the Phoenix". As mentioned above, it doesn't fit the mood of the scene, especially as presented in the book. However, for the casual movie-goer, this piece is terrific for rousing the audience for the coming movie. It was the only place in the entire film I noticed the music. The rest of the score is pretty decent, especially Umbridge's theme, and Dumbledore's Army. However, It is still dissapointing that the large amount of thematic material for the first 3 films, and for the fourth film, is ignored by each composer, save for Hedwig's theme, which in this movie is underused and understated. I preferred Doyle's 4/4 rearrangement as heard in GOF.
  6. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2000
    star 7
    I only saw the film once (in the cinema), but honestly, as much as I strain my memory, can't remember any music, apart from Hedwig's theme in the beginning. And I usually have pretty good ear for picking up different motifs.

    I guess this shows how plain and unremarkable the music was, IMHO. I have to listen to the soundtrack and will definitely watch the movie again when it comes out on DVD. But the music has been one of the very low points of OOTP for me...
  7. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    The music mix in the film was very low. That made it a bit hard to hear.
  8. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2000
    star 7
    I listened to the soundtrack last night and my impression hasn't improved (despite being free from the "distracting" visual element of the film). There's nothing memorable in the score, it's completely bland, uninteresting, and average (maybe even below average). And sounds a lot like the composer has borrowed stuff from various other composers.

    And that electric guitar thing = [face_sick]

    From the post-Williams HP scores I definitely prefer GOF rather than OOTP (although it's far from perfect, too).
  9. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I agree with the hot Czech girl.
  10. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2000
    star 7
    Hey! I'm Slovak!


    :p
  11. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    [face_blush]

    Damnit I totally knew that.
  12. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2000
    star 7
    Pwnt. :p But don't worry, I consider myself more Czechoslovak, in any case... :p
  13. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    You are truly Multiculti. :D
  14. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
  15. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Is this, and the bolded section, supposed to somehow change my opinion of his abysmal score?
  16. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2000
    star 7
    I dunno, but somehow I get the feeling he's talking about a totally different score, not OOTP.


    One thing I agree with, maybe: the Umbridge theme was recognisable. A bit. After listening to the soundtrack for the second time.
  17. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    Are you kidding? Umbridge's theme is as clear as Luke Skywalker's theme. Yeah, it wasn't used for every single Umbridge moment in the film, but it's still a theme.

    And, Strilo, no, it's not trying to change your mind, but it's an interesting read for those who actually liked the score (yes, there are some!).
  18. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I disagree. The bolded sections seem aimed to address some of my objections.
  19. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    Obviously not. I simply thought it was an interesting interview and the bolded section addresses the issue of the score not being thematic -- a point that many have contended. Besides those that he mentions, I've noticed several other motifs -- the DA, Harry and Sirius, Harry and Cho, and the Death Eaters/danger. His themes don't come out and grab you, they are much more subtle (minus of course Umbridge and the DA).

    EDIT:

    It does address your objection of the score not being thematic. I'm showing you that there are indeed themes, but that doesn't mean I'm trying to make you like the score.
  20. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I am not merely wanting the score to be thematic, I am wanting it to be more in the realm of music that Williams created for the first three films. Leitmotif to me means that the themes are recognizable within the work and can be recognized after 1 or 2 viewings as being related to a character or a plot element. I've seen the film three times and can only hum Hedwig's theme.
  21. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    I honestly think that some cues are very much in the vein of John Williams and his music for the first three films. With a bit more development, I can definitely imagine "The Ministry of Magic" and (specifically the beginning and last minutes or so of) "The Room of Requirement" coming from Williams' pen. I'm not sure how much closer you would want to get.
  22. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Nothing I have heard sounds remotely like Williams.
  23. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2000
    star 7
    QFT.
  24. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    Let me use an extremely specific example then. Compare the first 45 seconds of "Room of Requirement" from OOTP to the cue that starts at 26:45 in SS. They don't share a melody, but the orchestration of twinkling bell/chimes, ethereal choir, and the whole tone of magical mystery and discovery is quite similar. I'm not saying that Hooper's material is better than Williams', but that there are moments throughout his score where he touches upon some of Williams' ideas.

    I'm still not trying to make anyone like the score. If you don't like it, it'd be very difficult for someone to sway your opinion, but I am trying to show that some of the assumptions being made about the complete lack of respect/use of what material came before are wrong.
  25. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Well I do not have the score because I don't find it worth paying for.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.