Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix [Spoilers Allowed]

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by General_Quenobi, Mar 18, 2006.

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  1. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    I really like this soundtrack. It reminds me a little of a video game score, and I think that's because it's coming from a TV composer. Hooper simply isn't used to doing big-screen epics. Phoenix has a "smaller" feel... which is just fine.
  2. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    You can now listen to the album legally at AOL.

    And I agree with Cerrabore, I like the small sound of the music, and now that he's done one film in the series (and one blockbuster) I'm interested in hearing how he develops his music in the sixth film. Like I said, there's the start of a lot of good music in OotP, so hopefully he'll improve and develop a bit more in the next one. There's no confirmation one whether he will score six, but it seems likely since Yates is returning to direct.
  3. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    Just saw the film and really liked the direction that Yates took, and outside of one scene that portrayed the entirely wrong tone, I thought the score was fantastic. Although it has a more Potter sound, it is certainly not a Williams' score, and I mean that in a good way. The more minimalistic approach and instrumentation worked very well and I really can't wait to hear what Hooper has in store for The Half-Blood Prince.

    This is a score that works much better inside the film than on it's own.
  4. andy1044 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 2006
    star 2
    I agree. However, I felt the spotting for the first part of the film was a bit dodgy. A fair amount of the scenes were left unscored and to me felt a little bit flat. Once the story turned to Hogwarts though, the music picked up and most of the rest of the film was carried along nicely. Also, I think they only used the first half of the Fireworks track in the film. I guess Yates had the same reaction that we did to the wailing guitar.
  5. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    Yeah, I was a bit surprised the guitar was gone as well. I was actually really looking forward to that bit.

    I thought there were two scenes in particular that Hooper absolutely nailed in scoring. The first was the kiss between Harry and Cho and the second was the death of Sirus. Soundtrack.net's review of the album and film said that they would have rather heard a more sweeping romantic moment for the kiss, but I felt Hooper's music was perfect. This is not a story of passionate star-crossed lovers, but rather about two kids first kiss. Sure your first kiss is an awesome and magical moment, but more importantly the score portrayed a kind of subdued excitement and nervousness which I certainly felt during my first kiss. It's probably one of the least interesting tracks on the album, but is an absolute home run in the film.

    Also, the death of Sirius could have very easily been over the top and exceedingly melodramatic, but I was very pleased with the way Hooper and Yates presented it, with Radcliffe presenting a very realistic performance.
  6. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    More "sweeping, romantic music" for the kiss? Makes me cringe just thinking about it. Hooper scored this pretty well.
  7. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    Alright, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this would be the chronological track order. Some of the cues are spliced together, so it won't be perfect but...

    01. Another Story
    02. Dementors in the Underpass
    03. Flight of the Order of the Phoenix
    04. The Ministry of Magic
    05. A Journey to Hogwarts
    06. Umbridge Spoils a Beautiful Morning
    07. Professor Umbridge
    08. The Sacking of Trelawney
    09. The Room of Requirements
    10. Dumbledore's Army
    11. The Kiss
    12. Darkness Takes Over
    13. Fireworks
    14. The Sirius Deception
    15. The Hall of Prophecies
    16. The Death of Sirius
    17. Possession
    18. Loved Ones and Leaving
  8. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I'll give the score a listen on CD, but... I thought it was boring uninteresting and lacked any real magic. Warner Brothers seems to just not give a **** about these films having good scores. They could get ANYONE to do these scores and they have gone with two relative no-names and they have gotten two scores that reflect that. Neither are remotely in the neighborhood of quality that these films deserve, the quality level set by John Williams in his three Potter scores. I shudder to think of how awful the music will be in one critical scene in Half Blood Prince.
  9. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    The fact of the matter is that Williams left the series of his own accord and probably won't be back. There are very few composers who can match his output in the fantasy genre. To expect one to do so is utterly unfair and I don't think you're giving Hooper's score the credit it deserves. Not only did it sync up perfectly with most of the visuals on screen, but it also uplifted a number of scenes as well. For a composer who has never written the score to a big budget film, let alone a massive blockbuster like Harry Potter, his effort was very good and showed a lot of potential. I also have to agree with what Cerrabore said earlier - even though Williams wrote Hedwig's Theme, Hooper was able to create even more interesting interpretations of the theme than Williams.

    This may be coming from left field, but I would much rather give new and promising composers the opportunity to prove themselves than to hear a new Williams' score. The fact is that we have soooo many great scores from Williams and I get thrilled hearing his new compositions, but I'm even more thrilled when I hear a new and interesting voice. These new composers who are being given challenging opportunities will be the foundation for the film music world when composers like Williams are gone (god, it sounds like I'm typing a graduation speech :p ).

    Finally, Patrick Doyle is a composer of the highest calibre who, unfortunately, wrote a merely decent Potter score. I implore you to not judge him by his score to GoF and check out many of his other great works. Truth be told, he is one of the finest composers currently writing film music, and I find it truly disgusting to see him insulted like he has been around here when there is little basis for it.

  10. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Well I am not saying that I expect Williams to do every film and that anyone else should write a score as good as, say, his POA score. I am saying that Warner Brothers should have put more importance on the scores and gotten someone well-established, well-versed and experienced in writing solid scores. As for Doyle, well... I am pretty well versed in film scores myself and I'd never heard of him when he did the GOF score. What he did for that film does not at all compel me to check out anything else he's done. If that's unfair, well... it's his fault for doing a crap score for GOF.
  11. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    In a few Hooper interviews that I've heard, it was quite difficult for WB to agree to let him write the score. He had to give them several examples and of his previous work as well as present them with several samples of ideas he had for OotP. Even then it took them quite some time to decide whether or not they would give it to him. It's not like they said "Well, **** it. People will see the films no matter if they have a good score or bad." It's obvious from the production values of these films that they care immensely about every aspect.

    With that statement, you lose any respect that I might have once had for you. You're missing out on some amazing music: A Little Princess, Henry V, Indochine, Much Ado About Nothing, Nouvelle France, Sense and Sensibility, etc.
  12. Well_Of_Souls Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 2001
    star 5
    I.e., not very well-versed at all.
  13. andy1044 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 2006
    star 2
    Henry V is a great score, probably my favorite of his.
  14. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Look dude, I don't listen to scores for films I've never seen. And guess what? I've never seen any of those films. And you guys know Patrick Doyle because you are avid film score fanatics. The average joe does not know these people nor do they even pay attention to most film scores. I am somewhere in the middle because I am a fan of film scores but I don't go out of my way to know every single person. But come on I can name like tons of composers. I hope you guys know how condescending you sound when you act like any TRUE film score fan would know of this guy. Let me list the film score composers that I DO know off the top of my head...

    John Williams
    Jerry Goldsmith
    James Horner
    Howard Shore
    Basil Pouledaris
    Bernard Herrman
    Erich Korngold
    Vangelis
    Hans Zimmer
    James Newton Howard
    Harry Gregson-Williams
    Alan Silvestri
    Brad Fiedel
    Alan Menken
    Graeme Revell
    David Arnold
    Don Davis


    That's just off the top of my head. That's a list from which the average person knows MAYBE John Williams and if they are super lucky, Jerry Goldsmith. So I am well aware of far more composers than most people. Just because I'd never heard of Patrick Doyle before he did GOF does not mean I deserve to be told that I am not very well versed at all. So can the condescending film score fanboy attitude okay?
  15. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    The intention wasn't to be condescending, but it is incredibly unusual for someone to say they are well versed in film music and not have heard of Patrick Doyle. He is an very popular and prominent composer. I mainly took offense at the fact that you said you wouldn't even give his other music a chance because of GoF when the vast majority of people know he is far better than what was on display in that film.

    If you want to listen to music only from movies that you've seen, that's fine, but don't dismiss someone's entire creative output based on a 2 hour score.
  16. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I am not dismissing anything. I am saying nothing in GOF compels me to dig further and explore this guy's other music, especially when I've not seen the film. As for being well versed, I AM well versed in film music. You guys just expect anyone who is well versed to know exactly what you do or more, and that is bollocks.

    EDIT: Note that there is a huge difference between what I am saying and what you are hearing. I am not saying his other scores are crap. I am not saying I am dismissing all his work. I am saying the score that was the first from him I'd ever heard, did not compel me to look any further. That's no different than hearing an album from some band and not liking it enough to go listen to their other albums.
  17. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    Alright, I'll admit that I misinterpreted what you were saying. But still -- Say your friends tell you that you really need to start listening to the Beatles. You go and buy one of their albums and don't really care for it. However, if your friends tell you that particular album is a very poor representation of their overall work and you should really check out "Album A" (an album they highly recommend), would you do that?

    Here's my recommendation: Go rent A Little Princess. If you like the Harry Potter films, there's a good chance you'll like this as well. Not only that, but you'll get a chance to hear a proper Patrick Doyle score. If you hate the film and music, fine.
  18. General_Quenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2004
    star 1
    Strilo edit: I understand you feel the thread should return to the topic of OOTP and I agree. But you are not a mod and you definitely should not be calling people's posts "drivel."
  19. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    Goblet of Fire is Doyle on auto-pilot, I think. While Williams on auto-pilot tends to craft one great main theme and a cue or two (like Chamber of Secrets), Doyle's tendency seems to be to write many strong cues but without compelling themes to tie them together. Voldemort's theme(s?) and Harry's are just scale exercises, and the school themes are "Pomp and Circumstance" for wizards. There's no lighter way of putting it. The harmonizations and orchestrations of these themes are definitely good, though, and any cue that does not rely heavily on them does well on its own merit. Oh, and Hedwig's theme turns to gold when touched by Doyle, so that helps.

    Henry V and A Little Princess are Doyle not on auto-pilot.

    I've just gotten this Order of the Phoenix CD, and it's a bit of a mixed bag. Hooper is certainly a talented and nuanced composer, but he seems to show his inexperience by aping modern composers (like Zimmer) in cues like "The Sacking of Trelawney" (very dull; my least favorite). I know I've been defending the abandonment of Williams's themes, but "Nimbus 2000" would have been the key to Fred and George's escape, and instead we got "Fireworks." I don't oppose electric guitars in film music - they're fine for James Bond and even Attack of the Clones - but the out-of-control riffs suggest teenage rebellion in a very obvious way and are beneath Fred and George. I've heard it was cut from the film, which is fortunate.

    But it's really good, otherwise.
  20. Whitey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2003
    star 6
    The score worked really well in the film, I thought. Flight of the Order of the Pheonix was the clear standout, I think. The piano in Another Story worked splendidly with the imagery that accompanied it, giving the whole scene a dream-like quality. I also really enjoyed the "Harry and Sirius" theme as I call it, because that's basically what it was. I believe it was mentioned in this thread as being in one of the clips released earlier.

    My only real complaint is some of the cues just sort of... ended.

    No Williams, but for a TV composer, he did a really nice job.
  21. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Yeah I think the score does work well in the film overall. There are a few moments that are utterly anti-climactic as far as the music goes, meaning they could/should have been much better moments but the music was mediocre. I just don't think the score will stand on its own at all.
  22. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    After rearranging the score chronologically, I think it works better than the completely random mish-mash it was in before. It gives a more dramatic arch, like the film, but it's still is not the best listen on its own. It just works much better in the film.

    I'm not sure that I felt any of the music was anit-climatic necessarily (although his action music could use some work), but there were two scenes that stood out to me as scored inappropriately. The first was when Harry and his friends leave to rescue Sirius at the Ministry. I felt the music for that flight was wrong for the moment. It was filled with too much magical wonder and not tense and dramatic like the moment called for. I also thought the fight between Dumbledore and Voldermort should have been scored. Most likely this was Yate's decision and not Hoopers. I don't mind scenes that aren't scored, but that one really seemed to be lacking without music behind it.
  23. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Anti-climactic is the wrong word. Flat is better. Some moments in the film just fall flat musically.
  24. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    Music from the Movies has written about the most accurate and level-headed review of this score thus far. Although I disagree with the reviewer that all the films with the exception of PoA have been awful. The films have ranged from good (Philosopher's Stone, Chamber of Secrets, Goblet of Fire) to quite good (Order of the Phoenix) and very good (Prisoner of Azkaban).

    To make a 2.5 hour film out a 870 page book is no easy task and Yates and Goldenberg did a remarkable job as far as I'm concerned.
  25. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Right because he agrees with you, somehow his review is "level-headed." How utterly transparent.
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